Season 5, Episode 1: Celebrating 5 Years of Read Return Repeat

March 14, 2025

Host Daniel kicks off season 5 with a retrospective looking at the past five years of Read Return Repeat and some new changes coming. Joining him are past podcast hosts Sara McNeil and Sara Dixon, who talk about their time on the podcast, their favorite guests, how the show has changed and what (and who) they would like to see on the podcast in the future.

Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcription. Some errors may occur. If you find a transcription error, please contact us with any corrections and we will make those corrections as quickly as possible.

[MUSIC]

Daniel Pewewardy: Hello and welcome to Read Return Repeat season five. I am your host, Daniel Pewewardy, and this is how we're gonna kick off today, this season. So just FYI, we have a few changes to the show. We are doing some different format changes. We're gonna have some mini-sodes with different library staff members, but we'll still try to, like, have the original like author interviews that you guys have all grown accustomed to, but we're also going to like talk to people at the Library to find out how that works. And then I'm doing a spin-off with my coworker, Ian Bailey, who we're going to do a podcast called Beyond Books, where we'll like talk about movies and music and other things, like, related to the Library. But and also, we're gonna have book recommendations with Jenny, who's been on some of the podcasts before.

So anyway, we're changing things up. And to start that off, I just have to say, like we are hitting, this is our fifth season, and it has been five years since we started this podcast, and so to kick it off, I guess it's kind of weird to acknowledge that Sara Dixon is no longer going to be a co-host, but to start this episode, we're having a five year retrospective episode with the two previous Saras, and I have both Saras. And we'll get into why Sara's leaving, and what happened and everything. So it's not like we --

Sara Dixon: It was drama.

Daniel Pewewardy: So I have Sara Dixon here and former Wichita Public senior adult librarian, Sara Dixon and Sara McNeil --

Sara McNeil: Who am I?

Daniel Pewewardy: Wichita Public youth services librarian, who are both former hosts of Read Return Repeat to celebrate the five-year anniversary. And it's like the both, I have both Aunt Vivs.

Sara Dixon: Ooh, I was the recasted Aunt Viv?

Daniel Pewewardy: You were the -- [LAUGHS]

Sara Dixon: I think I was probably the better Aunt Viv, right?

Sara McNeil: You were so good. You were a little bit more joyous. I was a little bit more like somber, a little bit more --

Sara Dixon: You were very like, NPR.

Sara McNeil: Okay.

Sara Dixon: Like I was making jokes earlier about being on The Delicious Dish, which is not the vibe you were giving, but you were definitely giving, like, Terry Gross vibes.

Sara McNeil: Okay, cool.

Sara Dixon: So I love that.

Daniel Pewewardy: So yeah, this is probably gonna be my funnest episode, because we're talking about Read Return Repeat, and I don't know so, like, how many episodes we've done. Anyway, yeah, so a lot of changes, and I'm excited to have you guys on as the first guest for the season. I guess, so, like, McNeil, this was your idea, right? This is like, and I'll probably use McNeil and Dixon if that's cool.

Sara McNeil: You should do that.

Daniel Pewewardy: Differentiate. So, yeah. So, like, you started Read Return Repeat, and like, so when did that happen? I mean, I was kind of present, but like, I just want to hear, like, your experience with that.

Sara McNeil: Yeah, so I -- this is McNeil, just because you can't see me. So I got hired into adult programming in 2019. It was like August. It takes about six months to do programming at the Library. You have to do a lot of planning. So I had planned a bunch of stuff for the following year, and then COVID hit, and it was like crashing. So I only really got to do a few in-person programs before the Library shut down, the world shut down, and then everything moved virtually. And in the meantime, I was doing the ReadICT reading challenge. I had planned a bunch of really cool in-person programs that we couldn't host. And so I don't like to call myself an artist, but I definitely see myself as a creative.

Daniel Pewewardy: Creative is a good term. That's me too, yeah.

Sara McNeil: And I really like the idea of creating content for the Library. I mean, we have amazing content already, but I thought it was really interesting to explore the idea of creating our own content. And Dixon was amazing and so super supportive. And just was, like, already kind of had a podcast going on previously with Racine. I mean, we didn't call it a podcast.

Sara Dixon: It was a --

Sara McNeil: It was Facebook Live.

Sara Dixon: It was different, but, but it was okay.

Sara McNeil: Kind of was like an homage to a podcast, except for live. And so that was something that just kind of inspired me. Like, hey, we've already had something similar to this, but maybe we need to tailor it in a podcast format and then really tailor it to the ReadICT reading challenge, and then really promote our staff, like, I really love what you two did, but I wanted to include more staff, and then I wanted it to be a platform to promote other things going on in the community. That's kind of what my vision was. And so I just, you know, pitched the idea to Sara Dixon, and then we created a team, informal team, and then we ran with it.

Daniel Pewewardy: That's, yeah, and I think, like, the thing with the community aspect is something we're trying to do in season five, and I guess that's also one of the big announcements, is that, like, we are, like, no longer attached to ReadICT. So when we interview people, we're not connected to, like, making sure --like, because we'll talk about that, like, making sure that every interview had a ReadICT category, which, like... it was, I'm really glad to be a part of that initiative, but it was, like, really constraining to find guests when you're like, we have to find a guest that wrote a book about a cat and it's like... [LAUGHS]

Sara McNeil: Totally. Well, and I cheated, because it made it really episodic, because it's like 12 categories, and we can make 12 episodes, you know. So maybe that was originally why it was, is an easy step, but I get that.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, and I think that's what Jenny is going to do, is to do more, like the ReadICT with like, because we're, like, doing mini-sodes so like, we're, yeah, anyway, I'll stop talking about it right now. But so yeah, so the first season you had more, like, community involvement with the first season. So what were some of your favorite guests for that season?

Sara McNeil: I loved meeting with Todd Volkman, with the Kansas Wildlife Exhibit.

Daniel Pewewardy: I know Todd, yeah, yeah.

Sara McNeil: Because he brought the animal ambassador and we learned so much about, like, the services that they provide. I really liked meeting with Jami Frazier Tracy with the Sedgwick historical -- or Wichita-Sedgwick County Historical Museum. I really loved meeting with the ALA Office of intellectual Freedom. That was, that was outside of my scope, like I was thinking local, and Dixon was like, why don't we reach for the stars? And you know --

Daniel Pewewardy: Who did you interview? Was it, was her -- do you remember her name?

Sara McNeil: Deborah Caldwell-Stone... gosh, I'm so sorry I didn't --

Daniel Pewewardy: I, yeah, I was recently, yeah, went to a workshop with them, and I couldn't remember. I can't... I remember once from, like, Overland Park. And like, the head of OIF is from Overland Park, Kansas.

Sara McNeil: She, she came to KLA a couple years ago and was, like, one of the headliners, and I told staff that we're going because I didn't go that year. I was like, "You got to hear her. If anybody you have to hear, you have to listen to her." And it was, it was great. It was really insightful, because you could hear her lawyer voice, like, talking, but defending library freedoms.

Daniel Pewewardy: They're all, like, total, like, bad-a dudes over there at OIF. They're all lawyers. Like, I got, yeah, that's, that's really cool, yeah.

Sara McNeil: And I loved reconnecting with my college professor, Catherine John, Dr. Catherine John. And, like, I hadn't communicated with them in 20 years. That was a way for us to reconnect. And now we share, like, Christmas cards. And, you know, yeah. So it was like, oh.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. And speaking of, like, I guess, yeah, connections, I think, is, like, the thing is, like doing these and like connecting with guests and things, like, I'm mutual followers with a couple of our guests and stuff. And it's like, cool to have that connection. So yeah, I guess we'll hop over to Sara, the Dixon and just ask. So, like, so after so, I guess, like people, I -- let's just talk about why the guests have changed. And you, it's not like you didn't want to do the podcast anymore. You just had a, you took a different job, right?

Sara McNeil: This is Sara McNeil, yes, I took a different job. I loved working in adult programming, but I went to school to be a youth service librarian, and so when a position opened up that I could take, I did, and then Daniel and Sara Dixon took over, and they did an amazing job, like, took the podcast so far from where I first saw it. So I'll let --

Sara Dixon: Yes, we were sad to see McNeil go, but I don't know, you know, when you get people on your team and you know they were going to be like short-lived, because they are going to go off and do the things that they always dreamed of, and that's what I knew was going to happen with Sara McNeil. But so we're happy. We were happy for her, but sad. And honestly, I didn't know if the podcast was going to continue after that, but we kind of sat down with some of the admin, we -- Daniel and I had done some different programs together before.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: And knew that we had a good rapport. And so, like, I don't know that I wanted to do it by myself. Also, I was trying to be a manager for the first time in the system, and so it was a lot. Plus we were still recovering from COVID. Remember, remember that whole thing that happened? And so, yeah, I think, I didn't think the podcast was gonna keep going, but then, I don't know, it just all kind of clicked, and we had a great time doing it.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. I just kind of was, like, from my point of view, I was just kind of like, Sara McNeil's gone, and then I got asked to do the podcast. And I wasn't, like, 100 percent sure what, what everything that was entailed into it and stuff so like --

Sara Dixon: And we were awkward that first season.

Daniel Pewewardy: That first season was very...

Sara Dixon: You know, we're fine, but we were trying to be interviewers, and also trying to be Terry Gross in our own way.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: But if Terry Gross was, you know, a little bit more chaotic.

Sara McNeil: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: You know, chaotic Terry Gross. That was our style.

Daniel Pewewardy: It took us like, three years to actually finally --

Sara McNeil: Catch a groove?

Daniel Pewewardy: Get, get my groove on.

Sara Dixon: There were a couple good episodes, like season two where we were like, on it, yeah. And then season three, we were just like, man, we're, that was a great episode. And then the next time happened, we're like, man, that was a great episode. So I feel like we definitely hit into our stride.

Daniel Pewewardy: And there yeah, and there was kind of a shift in guests because we were actually, like, putting out for, like, national authors and things, and because everyone was already doing Zoom, I think -- I'm not gonna say anything happened good out of COVID, but, like...

Sara Dixon: I think it did change our approach to things. Things weren't tied to being face-to-face. And, you know, the video conferencing software took off, and we could do more things with it. And so Zoom did open a lot of doors for us. So yes, COVID time was awful, but I think you can say that that was like the one good thing about it.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, there's a technology aspect that we can talk to, like famous authors because they're accustomed to Zoom calls.

Sara Dixon: Uh-huh.

Daniel Pewewardy: And I guess that's what I tell people, is like, it doesn't hurt to ask.

Sara Dixon: And that's why we figured out, right, is that, you know we would list, because how we would go about choosing a guest is we would have -- at least when Daniel and I did. Sara McNeil's were all local. So they were like, okay, sure, let's find a time in the schedule. I don't think anybody who turned us down for your season, did they?

Sara McNeil: No, once we put out the ask, everybody was on board.

Sara Dixon: Like, sure, cool. The Library's doing a podcast.

Sara Dixon: So we... and we kept it kind of local and kind of like lower key authors. But then we hit, you know what I think changed it for me was Travis Baldree. Do you remember that episode?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: He wrote Legends and Lattes and then Bookshops and Bonedust. And they're cozy fantasies. And it was taking off on TikTok. And we were like, "Let's just try it. I don't know what this is." And he was like, of course.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: And we found that people really responded to our library credentials. They're like, "Oh, I love public libraries. They do so much for the community." And we do, and that got us an in with a lot of really cool people.

Sara McNeil: That's awesome.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I think that's the thing too is like, no one wants to say no to the library because, like, most of our rejections were scheduling conflicts.

Sara Dixon: Yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: Or, like, we tried to get Henry Winkler and it was like -- [MCNEIL LAUGHS]

Sara Dixon: We did. Why not? We can ask. You can say no.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, and it was just kind of like, oh, he's done doing interviews for the book. So you guys missed the window. So it was like... and maybe that's just a nice way of saying he doesn't want to do it, but I --

Sara Dixon: Peace out.

Daniel Pewewardy: Like, I thought it was like... yeah, and I think that was one of the shifts we did and stuff and like... like, you still listen. Did you listen when we started? Or were you kind of like, I'm not gonna listen to what you're going to do to my baby?

Sara McNeil: No, no. I was a big supporter. I listened to the second and third seasons pretty consistently, and then I kind of dropped off on the fourth season, but I even --

Sara Dixon: Our best season.

Sara McNeil: I know, I'll have to come back and listen, ding ding ding.

No, but I did come to, like, the in-person one you had with Sherman Alexie, that was really cool. And, yeah, I just really liked the spin on you did it. And I want to give props to Dixon because when I first thought about podcasting, I was like, audio only, and she was like, no, no, you have to have the video component. And I was like, really? I don't want to be on film.

Sara Dixon: I don't think I said you have --

Sara McNeil: You didn't have to, but she was a big pusher for it, and --

Sara Dixon: You're already recording it on Zoom so it was already done.

Sara McNeil: Yeah, it was already there. There was no extra -- yeah, we didn't have to worry about any AV person being sick, taking care of their kid. We could just literally --

Sara Dixon: Oh, McNeil, low key, okay!

Sara McNeil: Just kidding. But, yeah, you're right. It was already built into the format, and it was literally starting Zoom, and that was it. So I appreciated that. I didn't think I would, but I did appreciate it.

Sara Dixon: I mean, I think the reason we started doing the video component of the podcast was just like, we didn't know how people were going to want to consume that content, if they were going to want to listen. Or, you know, because we have people who would be interested of all ages and all technological capabilities and who... like podcasts are still kind of a millennial and younger kind of thing. Maybe some Gen X. There's some people in Gen X who will do it, but like, definitely not a boomer thing, right? And not to disparage that generation in any way, but like, that's just not their preferred format.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: And so if we were going to try to really get this thing to take off, we might as well try to get as many listeners and viewers as we possibly could. And since it was an easy thing to do.

Sara McNeil: It was easy.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, the reason this episode is not video is because that's not one of the season five changes. It's because Kyle, the guy that records it for us, our producer, is out, his child's sick, so --

Sara McNeil: I wasn't gonna name him on the podcast.

Sara Dixon: He's like the man behind the screen.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: We've made references to Kyle.

Sara McNeil: I refer to Kyle as Batman because he swoops in, you never know he's there, and then he's gone in two seconds. [BOTH SARAS LAUGH]

Sara Dixon: He's also kind of gruff. [BOTH SARAS LAUGH]

Daniel Pewewardy: I guess he is, yeah.

Sara McNeil: He's my Batman.

Daniel Pewewardy: I guess, yeah, we have to shout out to Kyle. He's been here, he's like the Mr. Belding of this podcast.

Sara Dixon: Mr. Belding?

Daniel Pewewardy: The principal --

Sara Dixon: I liked him as Batman better. Mr. Belding was always kind of in things, he always came in at the end of the story.

Sara McNeil: He did not read the room well. [BOTH SARAS LAUGH]

Daniel Pewewardy: He was also like one of the most consistent, yeah, Mr. Belding, I guess is a huge fan of karaoke, but that's not for here.

Sara Dixon: Like Mr. Belding or the actor who played him?

Daniel Pewewardy: The actor that played Mr. Belding is like a, like, I guess they have karaoke tournaments. And he is like --

Sara Dixon: That sounds super fun.

Daniel Pewewardy: He's into that karaoke lifestyle. He has karaoke events. He went on tour doing karaoke nights like. And of course, like, people our age are gonna be like, I'll go to this bar and sing with Mr. Belding.

Sara Dixon: Heck yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: People who are listening might not know who Mr. Belding is. I think it's a very narrow window that Saved by the Bell is --

Sara Dixon: Really? You think it's narrow? Don't people know Saved by the Bell? That's iconic.

Daniel Pewewardy: It's the Oregon Trail gap. It's that, those, the Oregon Trail generation and the Saved by the Bell generation, like, are the same generation. And it's like this, like the tail end of Gen X, and then, like the tail end of Gen -- what are we?

Sara McNeil: We're millennials.

Daniel Pewewardy: Millennials.

Sara McNeil: Yeah, we're early millennials.

Daniel Pewewardy: Early millennials.

Sara Dixon: Elder.

Sara McNeil: Elders, yeah.

Sara Dixon: Geriatric millennials. Although, Daniel, you might be full millennial. I don't know.

Daniel Pewewardy: I don't think so. I'm an elder millennial. '90, '89 to '90.

Sara Dixon: You're the Oregon Trail?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I'm on the last end. I'm the younger Oregon Trail generation.

Sara Dixon: Dysentery!

Daniel Pewewardy: Which they call Xennials --

Sara Dixon: Which is a dumb name.

Sara McNeil: Xennials?

Daniel Pewewardy: -- but that gets confusing, with an X. But that gets confusing because Gen Z --

Sara McNeil: Nobody can pronounce words that start with X.

Daniel Pewewardy: "Hennials," I don't know. "Shennials."

Sara Dixon: I think it's Xennials, which is just, it's a... they tried.

Daniel Pewewardy: The dysentery generation.

Sara Dixon: They could not identify us. We were so far outside of anyone's like parameters.

Daniel Pewewardy: Did you have people help write your questions and things for season one?

Sara McNeil: No, I wrote all my questions.

Daniel Pewewardy: You went solo.

Sara McNeil: I wrote all my questions, and I sent my questions out to my interviewees to prepare for the interview.

Daniel Pewewardy: Which is something we still do.

Sara Dixon: We did, but I will say that when McNeil was doing it, because I was watching her do all of this work, she took the brunt of it. She did pretty much, she carried season one pretty much on her own.

Sara McNeil: I definitely produced a lot of it.

Sara Dixon: And that was amazing. But that's why, when she left, and I was like, if we're gonna keep this going, we have got to spread out the work. That was way too much for one person.

Daniel Pewewardy: We used the broad hand of government oversight to... [LAUGHS]

Sara Dixon: Well, and also, just like, knowing what's feasible because it was so much work. And the only reason that she could actually do that is because COVID stopped all of the other like, in-person programs that she was trying to do. So it took the place of, like, everything else.

Sara McNeil: Exactly.

Sara Dixon: Not everything else, but everything program-wise.

Sara McNeil: No, it really did. It really did. Because, I mean, I don't, I don't know how many hours I clocked doing everything, and because I would record it all, I would produce it all. I would send all the things to Kyle, and he would mock it up into what we have on the website. But yeah. And I didn't, like, write a ton of questions. I think I would only write like six to nine questions per interview.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara McNeil: And then we would just expound on it, so just really vague questions. But yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: And I think like... the thing, I've done podcasts before, and I was always like, this is my favorite podcast. I realized it was because we have like five or six people working on this podcast, helping with questions, and, like a whole team, which is like, I feel like that makes it a lot more enjoyable, especially like when you're not producing and doing talent, and honestly, like just having, like the library being kind of like the place to do, and not just like a DIY thing. It's like, a lot funner. It's like, a lot funner.

Sara McNeil: So yeah, I mean, I was hustling trying to get people to do, like, book recommendations. I was going through the stacks asking staff.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara McNeil: It's, it's a lot more well-oiled now, you know, that you have a team and that. Yeah.

Sara Dixon: But you set the stage for it and so, and it really was your brainchild. I mean, you were the one that came up to me and said, "Hey, can we do a podcast?" And I was like, I mean, okay.

Sara McNeil: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I had a hand in the logos and the jingle.

Sara Dixon: And the name.

Sara McNeil: And the name, yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: I forget why I did it, but someone asked me to do a recommendation around that time. And like, I wasn't, I'm not, like, the most avid reader. I do a lot more because I got on the podcast, like, but at the time, like, I don't, like, I do audiobooks, but like, I was like, Oh, I can do it. I was like, it could be any book. I just was like, how about a Rupi Kaur poetry book? Because I was like, and I read it in like 30 minutes, which is not how you're supposed to, and I did, like a book, talk about it.

Sara McNeil: I remember because I also, in addition to, like, scouring people for books reviews, would record all of your reviews. And we had to do it a couple of times because you were really nervous.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I think I burped on accident on one.

Sara McNeil: You did! I was like, we're not using that! Again, again, again!

Yeah, it came out great. It really did. Yeah, and all of the, all of the recommendations were really good. I was really proud of staff for, like, stepping out of their comfort zones, being vulnerable and sharing what they've read.

Sara Dixon: But it was because of Sara's hard work that we were able to keep, like, building on it and make it better every single year. It's your hard work, too, Daniel. I mean, honestly, like, I'm so proud of what we accomplished in the, this is the fifth year, so in the four years that I was part of the project, and so, yeah, it's just one of the favorite things that I've ever done in my professional career.

Sara McNeil: Aww.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I have a lot of fun to and it's, like, something I'm proud of and stuff and like, I do, like, tell people about now, like, and it wasn't like that when I first started doing it. I was like, I'm doing a podcast for work. And now I'm like, I do this podcast for work, and it's kind of cool. Like, where you have, like, well, it's fun to listen to and like, even though we're making changeups right now, I'm so excited to see where they go. And like, continue to do some stuff with the podcast. And like, I guess, like, the guests, I'm supposed to ask you about N.K. Jemisin, which is, like, you're a big fan of.

Sara Dixon: Oh, what?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, so, like, you got to interview one of your literary idols. Do you want to talk about how exciting that was?

Sara McNeil: I did watch that one.

Sara Dixon: Where she, like, totally schooled us, and we were like, okay, thank you for letting us know she's amazing. And you know, I was a little nervous that she was gonna be, like, just not as awesome in person via Zoom, but she was amazing. And so we had reached out to her in season three and got because that's when World We Became came out. Right?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. The sequel, right?

Sara Dixon: No, I think it was the first one.

Daniel Pewewardy: Okay.

Sara Dixon: And so we reached out to her for that one, but then the second one came out, and we reached out to her again. They, her people turned us down. It was really exciting to get an email in your inbox that says N.K. Jemisin. And I was like, oh my gosh, we're so cool. But they turned us down simply because of a scheduling issue. And they said, they invited us to reach out again next year. And so it was, we ended up getting her for a book without a map -- or book with a map. And so we reached out to her again, just, you know what? Because she can tell us no, right?

Sara McNeil: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: Why not try? And so we did, and she said yes. So I may have screamed, I may have, like, sent an email to the team with also all in caps that was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, some sort of, like dancing GIF, like --

Sara McNeil: Confetti.

Sara Dixon: Just like all of the excitement. And I was, I feel like I got to ask her the questions I wanted to ask her, and she was so smart and interesting and just like -- and easy to talk to, too. Like, even though we were like, "Oh, we're just naive people from Kansas. Tell us about gentrification."

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: But she was just amazing. And so the whole experience was, I was nervous that I was just gonna freak out and go in my head and not... just black out the whole thing. But no.

Sara McNeil: Kept it together.

Sara Dixon: Kept it together. I didn't just flub over all my words. Daniel didn't have to come in and save me. I was... I think I did okay, right?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I was like, she, she was really cool to interview. And like, I've been telling people ever since the Neil Gaiman stuff and like --

Sara Dixon: Oh, because she's better. [LAUGHS]

Daniel Pewewardy: You can't -- you can't... yeah. People are like, "What should I read instead of Neil Gaiman?" And I'm just like, there's only one answer to that. And it's like, I send them the Nebula award speech, which is like, kind of like --

Sara Dixon: Oh, I never read it or heard it.

Daniel Pewewardy: Like she talks about, like the gatekeeping that was going on in the science fiction and fantasy thing. And I'm just like, the only answer to what you read instead of Neil Gaiman is N.K. Jemisin. And that's like, what I tell people. And I've only read, like, a short story and half a book, but she's so cool, like, I just was like, I'm gonna like --

Sara Dixon: I will tell you that anybody listening should go read The Fifth Season, whole trilogy. It was amazing. That's the one that won all the awards. Won it for the first, second, third. And then I really liked the duology, The World We Became -- or The City We Became and The World We Make, like, just she, she just layers in so many things and it's interesting, and it's weird, and you're just like, what is happening, but also you're super into it. I don't know. I just love her.

Daniel Pewewardy: I was -- some nerd. I'm sorry, I didn't know you called me a nerd. I was at --

Sara Dixon: Ah, Daniel.

Daniel Pewewardy: I was at a bookstore, and some guy was telling me that The City We Became is a really good book, and it's a trilogy. And I --

Sara Dixon: It was originally supposed to be a trilogy, but then you were like, um, sir, it's a duology.

Daniel Pewewardy: I was like, it's actually a duology. I know this because --

Sara McNeil: Who's the nerd now?

Daniel Pewewardy: I was like, because N.K. Jemisin told me it was a duology.

Sara Dixon: Check out Read Return Repeat.

Sara McNeil: I got a Zoom call with her on it.

Daniel Pewewardy: And I just felt like I was just like, I was just explaining, like, it's like someone asks you something, you tell them information. And like, you tell them how you know that information. I was like, I sound like such a jerk right now. Like, like, because I'm like, name dropping an author, and then, like, five minutes before, like, one of my Instagram mutuals had a book at the bookstore, and I pointed to that and like, I was like, I know that. Yeah, I'm friends with that person. Like, and I was like, I asked my girlfriend, I was like, do I sound like -- she's like, "No, it's fine. It's fine," okay. Because it's like, she's like, "You work at a library, you're gonna know authors."

Sara Dixon: You're gonna know authors, even big names like N.K. Jemisin. She was so cool, and that was a dream for me.

Daniel Pewewardy: So I guess Sara, we should talk about your departure and what happened, where are you going? I guess we should do, yeah, like, how do we write off your character? What do we tell people?

Sara Dixon: She ran off into the sunset. No, I am no longer an employee of the Wichita Public Library. I left it in very good hands, and I miss the team and all of the fun, wonderful things that we accomplished. But I am now a medical academic librarian for a school downtown Wichita. And yeah, so that's, that's just kind of it. I left. And so it's just not really appropriate for me to still be part of the project, even though I love it, and I would absolutely stay on. I gotta let you guys grow and do your own thing. You know?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, and so we are, it's, yeah, it's the ball is in our court, and thank you so much for like, being... you know, like, I'm glad to be involved in this now. Like, I feel like I just like, was like, I yeah, I'm, I'm glad to be like, part of Read Return Repeat. Both of you guys, set, like, paved the way. And I'm hoping I can make you guys proud and keep doing, we're gonna keep doing things. And I think the season's gonna be a weird season. I think, I'll be 100 percent honest with the listeners. We're gonna try some things out. Some of that stuff's gonna work. Some of that stuff's not gonna work. We're not bringing back the short story readings, which I know that was like the thing from season two. We're like --

Sara Dixon: You know, we learn things every single year, right? And I think it's okay. When they replaced Aunt Viv, it was weird, right?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: And now Aunt Viv is being written off the show.

Daniel Pewewardy: [LAUGHS] And at some point it's like, when do we --

Sara Dixon: Another millennial reference, though, right? Do we need to just explain that's from The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air?

Daniel Pewewardy: I don't think Zoomers listen to this. I think this is millennials. It's like, people that listen --

Sara Dixon: People are gonna know what we mean by Aunt Viv. Okay.

Daniel Pewewardy: And so I think it's like to give a shout out to the team that's worked -- Kyle, Ian, Jenny. Kelly, who helped with season two.

Sara Dixon: Greg and the transcriptions.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, Greg and the transcriptions, and everyone that's done recommendations and everybody that listens. I know there's like, co-workers that listen to every episode, and I know there's like patrons that listen and like let us know and like have gotten excited when we've interviewed their favorite guests. And that's always awesome to hear, because I like someone randomly coming up to me like, oh my god, you interviewed Travis Baldree, or like, see, you know, like, Cargill or whatever. I was like, yeah. I was like, you listen to the podcast?

Sara Dixon: Did I sound stupid? No? Okay, great.

Daniel Pewewardy: Like, I have not -- I've only ever gotten like, emails from like -- because, like, I volunteer at the, like, a museum and my parents live in Riverside, and I'm in the Riverside boosters and stuff. So like, all... like, I show up to the chili feed at the Riverside booster. There's always at least one or two people that listen to the podcast, and it's, like --

Sara Dixon: That's adorable.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. And I think we shouldn't assume that just boomers don't listen to podcasts, because a lot of them do. So yeah.

Sara Dixon: We're not disparaging anyone when we say that, we just are trying to figure out what our target market is.

Daniel Pewewardy: Shoutout to Sherry and all the Riverside boosters that listen.

Sara Dixon: Hey, Riverside!

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I bet the honestly, the wildlife episode with, yeah. was probably what got them into the podcast, because they're all about, like --

Sara Dixon: No, but I think you know, because you also brought in the museum, and you had a lot of really, like --

Sara McNeil: Yeah, I had Sarah Bagby on there.

Sara Dixon: Oh, that's right.

Sara McNeil: For Watermark. We had Grant Snider was the local author, yeah. We just. There was a lot of --

Sara Dixon: Celebration of Wichita, like the reading culture.

Sara McNeil: Lot of local folks.

Daniel Pewewardy: I'll just finish it out with a couple of questions for both of you, and you guys can shotgun or answer how you want.

Sara Dixon: Lightning round.

Daniel Pewewardy: Are there any authors you would like to see on the show?

Sara Dixon: Okay, so I was just reading a book, and I was like, man, I wish we could talk to her. I don't know how to pronounce her name, but the book was Anita de Monte Laughs Last. It came out I think last year, and it's about these artists, and they're like, 10 years apart, and one of them gets murdered, but she is, we're hearing from her from beyond the grave, and there's so much weird, like symbolism, but it's also really interesting. And anyway, I would. Just like, Man, I wish we could, I could talk to her about this book. So that's it. I don't I we'd have to look up her name, I think last name is González. Where's my phone? I'll look it up. But the book is Anita de Monte Laughs Last.

Daniel Pewewardy: I'll have to check into that.

Sara Dixon: And, yeah, that was just, it was a, it was an interesting book.

Sara McNeil: So I'm a youth service librarian right now, so I'm deep into children's literature. Picture books are my favorite genre, and I just happened to be listening to the radio the other day. And Mack Barnett, he is the new young people for, National Laureate for Young People's Literature. And he does a lot of picture books, but he also does like chapter books, just really funny guy, and was talking about how important it is for us to have visual literacy in our society, and not to discount children's books, because there's a lot to be said in those so I would love to hear more about like his thoughts on that, and especially being an ambassador for young people's literature --

Daniel Pewewardy: That's really cool, yeah.

Sara McNeil: --on a national level, because I think I don't remember who was before him, but I know Jason Reynolds was at one point, and so they go around the country promoting literacy, and I just really loved what he was saying --

Sara McNeil, hushed voice: -- on NPR.

Daniel Pewewardy: That's something I've been trying to --

Sara Dixon: Oh, you heard it on --

Sara Dixon and Daniel Pewewardy together, hushed voice: -- NPR.

Sara McNeil, hushed voice: I did listen to NPR.

Daniel Pewewardy, hushed voice: Hello, welcome to Read Return Repeat. We have my guests here.

Sara Dixon, hushed voice: Thank you. It's so fun to be here. Thank you.

Daniel Pewewardy, hushed voice: Thank you.

Daniel Pewewardy: I think that's one thing I did try to get was like, guest-wise was get more youth services, or, like, youth lit. And I wanted to get S.E. Hinton.

Sara Dixon: Daniel wanted to do some old school stuff. We also wanted Osborne --

Daniel Pewewardy: Mary Pope -- but she's no longer with us, right?

Sara Dixon: No, I think she is, but she's just taken a step back. Oh, wait, is she?

Daniel Pewewardy: Was that the one I was like, pitching and you guys like, "Daniel, she's been dead since 2008"?

Sara Dixon: There was definitely an author that was like no longer --

Sara McNeil: What about R.L. Stine?

Daniel Pewewardy: That would be a good one.

Sara McNeil: It's right up your alley.

Sara Dixon: Also Stephen King would be really cool, right?

Sara McNeil: Oh, that would be way cool.

Daniel Pewewardy: I'm going to Boston next week.

Sara Dixon: He does love libraries.

Daniel Pewewardy: I'll look for him. If I see Stephen King out and about in Boston, I'm gonna ask him.

Sara Dixon: Can we come back and, like, help again?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, of course.

Sara Dixon: Stephen, tell us about the ending of It.

Daniel Pewewardy: How did you come about this?

Sara Dixon: How'd you come about that?

Daniel Pewewardy: How? Yeah, what influenced you? Okay, not like substance-ly. [LAUGHTER]

Sara Dixon: What drugs were you on at the time?

Daniel Pewewardy: I guess another one of these lightning round questions. They want me to ask what podcast you would recommend? I was like, no, I'm not gonna ask them what podcast.

Sara Dixon: I don't, I don't really -- you know what, I don't listen to podcasts.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, yeah.

Sara Dixon: I listen to some of them, and they are all interview, which is why, and sometimes that's why I liked doing our interview format. I listen to talk radio a lot. I am also an NPR girly, and so I can make those Terry Gross references because --

Sara McNeil: We got a pulse, we actually got a pulse.

Sara Dixon: I'm just saying.

Daniel Pewewardy: I think the thing is, is, like people, millennials, are very NPR heavy, like we discovered it like. I think it's been around for a minute, and then it's like --

Sara McNeil: It's been around for a long time.

Daniel Pewewardy: Like, at least since the '70s. And I think we just kind of like, we are the, we're the public radio generation, not so much the --

Sara Dixon: Are we?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, I don't, I think, like we proliferated it because more than Gen X did.

Sara Dixon: All of the members of the week on our local station's Instagram are definitely older.

Sara McNeil: Yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: Okay.

Sara McNeil: I don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but I do watch some, like, video components of it, so and a lot of them are comedians. So I like, This Isn't, Not Your Mom's Podcast with Christina P. and her husband Tom Segura.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, ah yeah!

Sara McNeil: I love that one. I like Conan O'Brien's, was it Team Coco one, that one's really funny. I just like comedians interviewing other comedians and just learning the back stories of different niche-y stuff.

Daniel Pewewardy: I'm obsessed with Theo Von.

Sara McNeil: The guy from Road Rules?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, that's just like, what he, how he talks. I just like --

Daniel Pewewardy, southern accent: "Hey, man."

Sara McNeil, southern accent: Hey man, what's up, man?

Daniel Pewewardy: He also had like his like, go-to for like, a friend from his past is always Daniel. And like, white friends always be like,

Daniel Pewewardy, southern accent: "Daniel. I knew a kid named Daniel."

Daniel Pewewardy: That's like, yeah, my name sounds really funny in a southern accent.

Sara McNeil: Hot Ones. Did you ever watch Hot Ones?

Sara Dixon: No, I'll catch the little video clips of it when it pops up on my social media feed. But like, I really like that he does vegan wings for the vegan guests.

Daniel Pewewardy: I don't, yeah, I've talked about this outside of the podcast. The Hot Ones hot wings that you can get at Dillon's are really good. I'm gonna rec-- this is not an endorsement, but. This is -- what?

Sara Dixon: Do they have a non-meat variety?

Daniel Pewewardy: I saw it online, and I yeah, anyway, we can't like, I'm not endorsing.

Sara Dixon: We're not endorsing it.

Daniel Pewewardy: All hot wings are good hot wings. I've never had dry hot wings. I don't like when they're like, over, like, almost burnt. But all hot wings are good hot wings. Public hot wings.

Sara Dixon: Hot wings for everyone.

Daniel Pewewardy: Which is not an endorsement of Public at the Brickyard's hot wings. [LAUGHTER]

Daniel Pewewardy: All right, would you ever do a podcast again?

Sara Dixon: Duh. I absolutely would. I might actually -- I'm like because I can't do this one anymore, or not "can't," but you know, it's not appropriate. I would love to do a podcast again. I don't know what it would be about. I would do a podcast with you, Daniel, but I don't want to poach the library team, so I don't know. I don't know what the future holds.

Daniel Pewewardy: Bread baking.

Sara Dixon: It's really fun. I mean, we could talk about bread baking. I could go for a whole episode. Bring me in another person that does sourdough and like, you know, it's a culture --

Sara McNeil: It's a sourdough bake-off.

Sara Dixon: We'll talk about all of the different things and your process, and how it takes 5000 hours, and then when it fails, it's a very sad thing, but then you're just like, ready to go again.

Daniel Pewewardy: We should just do a weekly news podcast. So because we play trivia and we don't always do the best on the current events section.

Sara Dixon: It's really hard to read the news right now.

Sara McNeil: Unless you're listening to NPR.

Sara Dixon: Okay, another NPR girly.

Daniel Pewewardy: McNeil, how about you? Would you do another podcast?

Sara McNeil: Probably not. [LAUGHTER]

I, maybe I was a little too vulnerable the first season. Maybe I shared too much about my personal life. Yeah, I don't think anybody really cares.

Sara Dixon: You know what? I don't watch our episodes again because I lived through them, but I watched every single one of your episodes, and I thought that being vulnerable gave yours an air of authenticity that I really appreciated. I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I would have said that," but then I was like, "Oh, I'm kind of glad that she did." Like, I really, I think it landed.

Sara McNeil: I think I did it to make it, like you said, authentic, to have something that someone would want to listen to, but then going back and listening to it, I was like, "Oh, I don't want to talk about, like, my trauma, or, you know, my family per se." So I'm good where it's at, but I don't think I would do another one.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah.

Sara Dixon: I think that's fair, but I liked that you were that way. So if you're questioning it, I'll tell you.

Daniel Pewewardy: It's also kind of, like, awkward doing this podcast, because it's like, this is part of the Wichita Public Library, so you always have to, like, be mindful that you are representative of, like, a public, like, institution. You know, I will, you know, like, they can lock me up in the Bastille, but I will still say it's okay to call Frankenstein's monster Frankenstein.

Sara McNeil: This is, this season's gonna be like Frankenstein.

Daniel Pewewardy: That's my hottest take. Yeah, it is going to be like --

Sara Dixon: That is your hottest take.

Daniel Pewewardy: It is my hottest take. And I will die on that hill that you can call him Frankenstein, and I'm never gonna stop calling him Frankenstein.

Sara Dixon: I feel like --

Daniel Pewewardy: You don't call it Ford's automobile. You call it a Ford.

Sara Dixon: That's fair. I feel like people, it's just a form of gatekeeping, right? It's like I'm so much smarter than you, so I know that it's not, in fact, Frankenstein. It's Frankenstein's monster.

Sara McNeil: Well, just like our names, like, I'm McNeil, she's Dixon, because we're both Saras, right? So we need an extra layer of labeling.

Daniel Pewewardy: I mean, like, he's Frankenstein's son. I mean, I think that's how it works. And so he's, like, you could call him Junior. [LAUGHTER]

Sara McNeil: You could call him Junior.

Daniel Pewewardy: Let's see. We'll do one more, and then we'll because we're -- this season's supposed to be shorter episodes.

Sara Dixon: It's been so fun.

Sara McNeil: Kyle's gonna have a lot of fun cutting this down.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. What tips do you have for someone who wants to start a podcast on their own?

Sara Dixon: On their own?

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah, like don't?

Sara Dixon: Don't? [LAUGHS]

No, get a team.

Sara McNeil: Yeah, get a team. I don't think it would have been as successful without creating a team. Because, I mean, you can only bring so much to the table, and you need other people to help.

Daniel Pewewardy: Collaboration is key. And like, if you can get five people for a trivia night weekly, you can get, like, you could delegate it like, hey, this person's going to, like, write the script and this person's going to edit it. Like, yeah.

Sara Dixon: Although ours was pretty scripted. I think, you know, if you were just going to have a podcast where you just kind of talk about whatever, then that doesn't, it just requires a little bit more technical skills. But if you want to have, you know, the interview style, or the just having somebody else to shoot ideas off of, you know what I mean? That just made all the difference, I think. So nothing too groundbreaking there.

Sara McNeil: No, but, like you said, if it's gonna be something super niche that you can just spitball about sourdough, you know?

Sara Dixon: I mean, I would.

Sara McNeil: You don't need a whole team.

Sara Dixon: I don't know if anyone would listen to that, but I would do it.

Daniel Pewewardy: Have fun.

Sara McNeil: Yeah, have fun. Be passionate about what you're talking about, because nobody wants to listen if you're not.

Sara Dixon: Good point.

Daniel Pewewardy: Is there any... you guys now, this is a question for you to ask, I guess: what direction would you like to see the podcast go into?

Sara Dixon: Aren't you gonna tell us what direction it's going?

Sara McNeil: I mean, I love what you already mentioned before this started about, like, beyond books. Because, honestly, I read a lot while I was doing the podcast. I read a lot while I was doing ReadICT. In the wake of that, I have not been reading a whole lot for pleasure, but I've been inspired by things that I've been watching, and then wanting to go back and reread those things. So like, I recently watched Even Cowgirls Get the Blues, and I was like, oh my god, I need to read Tim Robbins again, or Tom Robbins again. I can't believe I haven't read one of his books in forever. And, you know, shout out to the Library. You can't stream that, so you literally have to check it out from a library to watch it. It's so indie.

Daniel Pewewardy: Yeah. It's, I recently got a Blu-ray player because I just didn't have any way to watch movies. And I'm like, oh, the library's opened back up to me. And it's great.

Sara McNeil: So I like that. I like that you're thinking beyond books. I would like to see more of that, because I was also listening to the radio the other day, and we were talking about how we're moving away from being not illiterate, but post-literate society, where we're not just reading things all the time on pages, like we are consuming videos. We're consuming, you know, auditory things. So looking at the future and looking at how our society is consuming information and media, we need to be able to stay relevant to that.

Daniel Pewewardy: And I think, yeah, everybody has, like, their own way of consuming things. I'm a very audio consumption person. Like, I recently -- because I watched pro wrestling, they started, like, putting the wrestling on broadcast on XM. So like, I was, like, driving back from Oklahoma City, and I listened to like, a whole wrestling match. And like, I even did that with the Super Bowl, because I was running late to a Super Bowl party, and so I had to put it on for my girlfriend so she could, like... and so we, I just listened. She watched it on Tubi and I just listened to the audio, and it's like, oh my gosh. I just, I realized this is, like, a recent epiphany. It's like, I just like consuming things via audio, and it's like, yeah, that's, I'm excited to, like, explore, like, other ways, other forms of literacy with that. How about you, Sara Dixon?

Sara Dixon: I really don't have any thoughts on this, except that, because I'm, you know, I'm stepping away, and I just want you guys to be successful. And I think that as long as the podcast evolves to what you feel like is good for our listeners, good for you, good for the team, good for the Library, like I'm just gonna support it, and so I don't have any thoughts on where you should go, but I'm excited to see where it leads and support you from afar.

Daniel Pewewardy: Thank you, Sara, that means a lot.

Daniel Pewewardy: Well anyway, thank you guys, both for being on this five-year retrospective episode, and hopefully won't be the last time we hear from you. We might, you know, see how, bring you back occasionally, and it's been really cool. I can't believe we've been doing this for five years, and I'm excited to be a part of this and to the carry the torch for y'all and thank you again, and --

Sara Dixon: I think you're gonna do great.

Daniel Pewewardy: Thank you.

Sara McNeil: Yeah.

Daniel Pewewardy: Like, I'm sad that, you know, I'm kind of glad there's no video because I'm kind of tearing up right now, and I don't want people to see me get teared up.

Sara Dixon: Be vulnerable, Daniel.

Daniel Pewewardy: It's yeah, maybe that's --

Sara McNeil, hushed voice: That's right, listeners care.

Sara Dixon: Listeners care.

Daniel Pewewardy: Listeners care. So thank you, and like thanks to everyone involved with Read Return Repeat. We're back. Again, we have some changes coming up. We're still figuring everything out. We do have an author interview set up in a couple of weeks, we're interviewing Lori Dove, Mask of the Deer Woman. Excited to have her on the podcast. She's a local author who recently wrote a book that's like blowing up in the charts and getting, like a lot of, so excited for that one. And thanks for listening, and thanks again for being on the show, guys. And was really awesome to have you guys on to celebrate five years. Have a good one. Thanks.

Sara McNeil: Thank you.

Sara Dixon: Bye.

Daniel Pewewardy, voiceover: That was a lot of fun. It was really awesome talking to the Sarah, McNeil and Dixon about the podcast, and you know, how it started and where, where it's gone and where it's going. And so shout out to Sara McNeil and Sara Dixon for being our guests for this episode, and shout out to the listeners for listening for this like last five seasons. I'm excited to celebrate five years of Read. Return Repeat. and I'm excited for this season. We got a lot of stuff lined up.

I'm really excited, we're gonna do some different things with the mini episodes and the different kind of spin-offs we'll be doing, like the one I'm doing with Ian called Beyond the Books, where we explore movies and music and other cultural things. Also, we have some author interviews lined up. We're going to interview Lori Dove, author of Mask of the Deer Woman. I'm excited for that interview. It's really cool, because Lori was my first boss as far as like, when I was in college and I was a journalist, she hired me to be a movie reviewer for the alternative weekly she was running at the time, so it'd be really, I'm really excited to catch up with her. Huge shout out. This has been a production of the Wichita Public Library. Thank you for listening, and shout out to our production team: Ian, Jenny, Brenda, Kelly even helped us out for a season. And we couldn't have done this all without Kyle. He's the tech guy. He's the guy that's doing the editing. He's the guy that makes us look and sound good before it hits the airwaves. So shout out to Kyle, also Greg and Jeff and everybody that's involved on the Library.

So this is a community effort, like it takes... this is, like, my third podcast, and like, I can say that, like, it's the most fun I've had doing a podcast because there's so many people involved, and there's so many people to shoot ideas by. And like, you don't have to, like, do everything on your own from -- like, it's so nice to, like, have a team to do this, and it makes doing a podcast fun. So thanks to the team. Appreciate you guys, this is a lot of fun, and thanks to the listeners. It's been five years. It's really awesome that you guys check us out and you know, make sure you continue. You know, check us out.

You can listen to the podcast through the Spotify app or stream episodes on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on. If you like what you heard today, be sure to subscribe and share with all your friends. Well, I'm gonna get out of here. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you on the next episode of Read Return Repeat. Bye.