Season 3, Episode 8: 50 Years of Flatpickin'

Sara and Daniel interview local historian Seth Bate, author of Winfield's Walnut Valley Festival, as they delve into ReadICT category 6: a book about time and talk about the timelessness of music, building community through a shared passion, and why more people should play musical saws.

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[MUSIC]

SARA, VOICEOVER: Hello and welcome to another episode of Read. Return. Repeat. I'm Sara Dixon.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: And I'm Daniel Pewewardy. In this episode, we're going to look at ReadICT category number six: a book about time.

SARA, VOICEOVER: And to that end, we're going to take a journey back through time and down south.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Oh, down south. Heck yeah, Cancun, baby!

SARA, VOICEOVER: Okay, well, not that far south.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: New Orleans? Let the good times roll! I'm gonna get a po boy!

SARA, VOICEOVER: Daniel, it's not an actual journey. We're still talking about a book. And no, you're still too far.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Oh, like, is it Oklahoma City?

SARA, VOICEOVER: Well, now you're getting closer. It's about Winfield, Kansas!

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Ugh.

SARA, VOICEOVER: We're gonna learn about the Walnut Valley Festival, which has been happening each September just down the road from us for 51 years.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER, UNENTHUSIASTICALLY: Bluegrass? Oh, man, this is gonna be fun.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Okay, okay. Okay, hold on. Seems like it would totally be your thing. But maybe we can get you more excited about it after today's interview. We're talking with Seth Bate, author of Winfield's Walnut Valley Festival, which has been named to the 2023 Kansas Notable Books list and received the Tihen Publication Award from the Kansas State Historical Society.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Seth is the Walnut Valley Festival emcee each year and was an associate producer of Winfield: A Bluegrass Musical, which debuted in 2022.

SARA, VOICEOVER: I have totally got to see that.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Seth moved to Winfield, Kansas in 1989. His interest in local history was sparked by traveling throughout Kansas for his work at the Wichita State University Community Engagement Institute. Seth's writing has been recognized by the Kansas Association of Historians and appeared in the Kansas Leadership Center Journal.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Let's welcome Seth. All right.

SARA: Hi, Seth. Welcome to Read. Return. Repeat. Thank you for joining us.

SETH: Thanks. I'm really excited to be here.

DANIEL: Awesome to have you.

SARA: Yeah, we're excited. Well, I'm excited because I gotta tell you, I'm a huge fan of the Walnut Valley Festival and so I was so excited when your book came out. And I immediately told my parents because they used to take me when I was a kid. So for our listeners, even though it is a local festival, there may still be people somewhere who are unfamiliar, unfamiliar with what this is. Would you tell our listeners a little bit about it, and maybe why you decided to write a book about it?

SETH: Sure, the Walnut Valley Festival is an annual acoustic music festival that happens in Winfield, Kansas. I live right near Winfield so it's my hometown festival. It is also the national flatpick guitar contest, and a series of other instrument contests that happen every year. And it's mostly bluegrass and folk music. But really, it's acoustic music of all types, on stages and in contests, and played by people who come to just attend the festival as well. And it's been going on more than 50 years now.

It was a topic that I picked for my master's thesis. I went through the local and community history program at Wichita State. And then that thesis got adapted into this book. And I wrote about it for a couple of reasons. One is my advisor and friend, Dr. Jay Price said, when I was looking for a topic, you know, as things near significant anniversaries, often they're ready to be studied. And at that point, you know, we were in year 46 or 47, something like that. So it seemed like a good time. But also, it's just, it's something that I love and have found is both universal and unique. So people like to talk about it. And I like to talk about them with it. And then I do have a family connection. My father-in-law was one of the three people who incorporated the Walnut Valley Association, which is the company that has run the festival all these years.

SARA: Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, like I said, it's just, it's always been something that's been near and dear to my heart. And so I love that it gets to be the topic of our podcast.

DANIEL: And I really liked the approach you took with it. Instead of doing like a straightforward local history book, like a lot of times, it's just like a single narrative, you kind of took the people's history approach and had a series of essays written by various people, including yourself, that had been involved with the festival over the years, where they reflect on their own experiences and memories of the festival, festivals past. Why did you choose this format for telling the festival story?

SETH: So I have to be honest, it wasn't my idea. And at first I didn't like it very much. So the festival ownership and the executive team including Bart Redford, who's in charge of it these days, had been very cooperative and open as I was doing my thesis research. And wasn't too long into that project that we started talking about, well, maybe this is a book for non-academic audiences, too. And so I just thought we'd strip out the historian-y stuff and we'll drop in some photos and we'd have a book. And Bart said, "Well, you know, the, the festival is much more of a cooperative activity. And there's no one way to tell the story. What if we started curating and collecting reflections from other people too?"

And after I got over having my ego bruised a little bit like my history wasn't good enough, I realized he was absolutely right. So we have essays and reflections by performers, by people who are campground attendees and have been since the early days, by people who serve as staff for the festival. And so there's no way to get 50 years into one book. But I hope by having those different perspectives, we at least have something where everybody who's come can see themselves.

SARA: I feel like it really was effective, though, the people's history of the Walnut Valley Festival. I mean, the community is what makes it such a success. And so I feel like your book really like captured that. So yeah, I mean, I get... I get wanting to take the more historical academic approach, but I do feel like in a book format, it was really effective.

DANIEL: I liked it. Yeah, I read a lot of music biographies. And I always kind of... sometimes I'm not a big fan of the narrative on them. I would much rather hear about from the people involved.

SETH: Well, I appreciate that. And if you like that, you should also know there's a gorgeous picture book out there that Bob Hamrick put out a few years ago. And so I hope this is a nice complement to that as well.

SARA: Awesome. We'll include that in our show notes so that if you, our listeners are interested, they can find that. What was the most surprising thing that you uncovered while researching the festival and for this book?

SETH: It's really... it's a really little fact. And it didn't make it into the book, maybe not even into the thesis. But you know, when an event has been around so long, you just kind of assume that things have always been that way. So ever since I've been attending the Walnut Valley Festival, when you get your admission, you get it as a wristband. And I found in some early meeting minutes that the idea for the wristband came from my mother-in-law, Christie Muret, because they were trying to figure out, you know, having people pin things to their jackets wasn't quite working. And a paper ticket was hard to keep for several days. And she was the one who came up with a festival wristband.

SARA: Okay.

DANIEL: Like wait, did she like nationally or like, what? Because I feel like it's a relatively new thing. So I wouldn't be surprised if Winfield was the first festival that did it.

SETH: I have no evidence of that. But let's just claim that right now: Winfield was the first place to do festival wristbands.

SARA: I remember one year, we tried to... I brought some friends to the festival. And we wore our wristbands and we had a contest. It was disgusting. I'm so sorry, that actually I'm realizing I probably shouldn't be telling this story -- but we had a contest to see who would wear their wristband the longest because we were like, warriors.

DANIEL: Oh yeah, I remember doing that as a kid.

SARA: That's, it's gross. I mean, because they were plastic. You could shower in them. It was fine.

SETH: Yeah, well, you'll still see on social media people bragging like it's been six months. Look, look, here's the picture of my wristband.

DANIEL: Oh, wow.

SETH: If that helps them keep the Winfield spirit, great. It's not what I do.

SARA: Yeah, that was only one year.

DANIEL: So the Walnut Valley Festival focuses on what we consider folk music, which can include genres like bluegrass, Celtic, and even gospel genres that aren't as well known but attract people of all ages. What is it about these styles of music that seems to transcend generations?

SETH: So my theory is that while all of those genres have had waves of popularity -- so there have been times that bluegrass has been much more in the popular culture and times that Celtic music has been much more in the popular culture -- in our lifetimes, none of those has ever been the default music. It's not what's shown up on radio or TV or the other ways that you access media unless you look for it. And so I think what feels a little timeless about it is it's music people actively go to places to hear or actively seek out. Also, obviously, it's a little easier sometimes to see what is the cultural tradition associated with a bluegrass song or, you know, particularly an old folk song that's been recorded by a million people than it is to say, you know, what, what's the cultural connection to whatever is the top 40 music. But to me, I think the biggest thing is that it's, it's not what you hear by accident. It's what you hear when you go to a place to hear it.

DANIEL: Interesting.

SARA: But I feel like it also, you do hear a lot of music by accident while you're there, right? I mean, that's... I think, well, I don't know, I don't, I'm gonna stop that thought before it really gets going because I feel like I'm gonna lose myself along the way.

DANIEL: I really, I liked the oral history aspect of the folk music and bluegrass being like, this isn't a song you read lyrics to, like it's a song you heard and heard enough that you know it and just like carrying it on through generations and like, thinking about how far that goes back. Oral traditions are like really cool and I like seeing that. I like that about the folk music genre.

SARA: Yeah, that's pretty cool.

SETH: And for playing music with other people, I think the most important thing is to find a song that enough people know that you can play it in some way. So one of the campsites where I spend a lot of time is a group of people that call themselves for kinfolk, and kind of their camp tradition is we have 100 songs and a song book that most people are going to know. And if you roll up to our camp and you don't have some other idea, we're going to pick one of those 100 songs. And it might be one of those passed down a million times, like Roll in My Sweet Baby's Arms songs where you can think of 30 verses, it might be a Taylor Swift song, but we're gonna find something you know and we're gonna sing together.

SARA: Yeah, I love that.

DANIEL: I was at, I was at a Civil War reenactment. I wanted to cheer for the Union troops so I looked up John Brown's Body. And now I have it stuck in my head all the time.

SETH: Yes.

DANIEL: John Brown's body lies a moldering in the grave --

SETH: It's also a good one to do on a podcast because it's royalty free.

DANIEL: Good to know!

SARA: Smart.

So like we've kind of mentioned, there is this whole communal aspect to this festival. And I think it is different than a lot of other music festivals. Not that I've been to a ton. But not only do these musicians, they perform on stage, and then you'll often see them like roaming through the campgrounds and just jamming with people as they're walking through. You've got amateur musicians that just like to play so they'll play with each other, they'll play at the different campsites. Do you think that there are other festivals out there, do you think that are... that are like this? Is this something unique to Winfield?

SETH: To call it unique to Winfield would be going too far. Because if you go to a bluegrass or a singer-songwriter festival, you're also going to see song swaps and jams and things like that. What's different about Winfield is from the beginning, it was built to be a participatory festival. And so it's in the DNA completely. And I'm pulling a number that might not be entirely accurate. But when I was doing the research, I would go through the surveys that people send in every year and the festival compiles. And like 70 percent of people answered on the survey, "Yes, I brought an instrument." So even among festivals where participating in the music is part of the experience, Winfield is an extreme you are more likely to sit next to somebody who is a guitar player than not.

SARA: Well, and even like when... so there would be some person that would camp with us that they don't really play an instrument. I don't really play but I like to sing along. And so people, or they'd have like little percussion type things like little shaker eggs, or even like taught myself how to play the spoons kinda because that's like a bluegrass...

SETH: Yes.

SARA: But you know, there's always... there's just so many different ways to participate. It doesn't have to be, you know, a beautiful guitar or banjo or something like that. You can just like pick up something off the side of the road and bang it around as long as you can... you don't disrupt what's going on, you know, you're adding to the... what's happening.

DANIEL: Yeah, it's, that's what's cool. I like that aspect of that, improvisational.

SARA: One time I saw a lady playing a saw, like with a bow. That's a thing.

SETH: Yes, there's always going to be a musical saw or three around the campground.

SARA: So bizarre. And even like, looking at the website for the valley festival, like they're very clear on the etiquettes and the things to do, interacting with other people and other musicians that, you know, sometimes you'd be like, this should just be something that you know to do but some people don't.

SETH: Particularly cool when you're starting to get into the false spooky music. So the musical saw is one of the first things that you'll see or hear in the campground. When you're finding places to play and participate in music in the campground, though, you're right that it's about finding places where you can add to it. So there are some gems that are high level bluegrass players and they observe pretty strict bluegrass jam etiquette and your shaker egg is cute, but really not welcome. And there are places where whatever you've got, bring it in, we'll figure it out. And I love both those settings for different reasons. But part of being at Winfield is kind of knowing your spot and knowing what to add and what not to.

DANIEL: I liked the part of the book where the guy camped in the wrong spot and he couldn't sleep. And then like, they're like... and then he tried to basically Karen his way out of it, like go into the festival authority, and then they're like, dude, this is... the music's gonna go all the time. And so he just ended up going to like Winfield lake or whatever.

SETH: Yeah. And for people who don't know -- I guess we kind of didn't say this explicitly -- the campgrounds are open for 11 days. So for the diehard people involved in this, it's more than a week long commitment of being there on the grounds. The professional stages are open for five days and the contests go for four. So there's a lot of music before anybody who's paid to be on stage plays a note.

DANIEL: So, real quick question, what was your first Walnut Valley Festival? And what are your memories from the first time?

SETH: It was 1989. I was a freshman at Southwestern College in Winfield. That's how I got to Kansas. I grew up in a military family. And I was kind of aware of it because folk music was part of my family experience. So, you know, I think like a lot of '80s kids, I was a big metal kid. But I also, you know, loved the folk music that my dad played on his guitar and that my folks played around the house. So I knew to be on the lookout for it. And I saw maybe even the first day that I was in Winfield a flyer for it that said that Tom Chapin was playing. And Harry Chapin as an artist, I revere and died before I got to see him live.

So I was like, "Yeah, I want to go see Tom Chapin, this will be great." And I convinced a couple other people to go with me on that festival Saturday. And I figured this would be a thing you rolled up to and you paid five bucks and there were a couple of concerts. Well, it was... I don't know what the price was for one day in 1989. But it was more than I was expecting to pay as a freshman in college, but I was like, all right, we're there, we're doing it. And it was immediately more music than I could focus on. And it was so exciting. And I saw Tom Chapin, but I also discovered these other singer-songwriters. And these people playing hammered dulcimer. And I didn't even make it to the campgrounds. I had no concept of that. But just going to the stages that year hooked me. And the next year, I bought a four day ticket and starting the year after that I started planning my year around it.

SARA: So have you been to every one since 1989?

SETH: We missed one year when Jenny and I were living in Greece.

SARA: Okay.

DANIEL: Understandable.

SARA: Didn't come back from Greece to attend the festival.

SETH: No, but we did send postcards to people saying we were gonna miss it.

SARA: I mean, that's impressive, though, you know, that such a wonderful festival has been around for so long. But you know what, let's talk about that when we get back. We're going to take a short break. And then we'll come back and we'll have more with Seth Bate.

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SARA: All right, we're back with Seth Bate.

DANIEL: Yeah, it's great to have you here, Seth. The festival recently celebrated its 50th anniversary in 2022. Many music festivals over the years haven't had the kind of longevity. What do you think has made this event special that seems to continue to attract people? Do you see the festival go -- going for another 50 years?

SETH: Yeah, there's a lot in that. Let me see if I get to it all.

SARA: Okay, we can break it down for you.

SETH: First of all, in Kansas, we're fortunate that we have several things: the Wichita Jazz Festival, Music Theatre Wichita, that have lasted 50 years. And for people who get done with this podcast, seek out the 1972 podcast that the Kansas Humanities Council did that looks at some of those things that have lasted that long. And you're right, it's really unusual for something to have stayed active and relevant that long.

My sense of the reason that it's worked for the Walnut Valley Festival actually is part of the argument that I made in the thesis. And it's two things. One, that I actually believe the sameness of the festival has contributed a lot to it continuing. Within the first few years, all of the elements that are still part of the festival experience were locked into place in a way that's identifiable now. And so this idea of coming home to Winfield, coming back and knowing I'm going to see these kinds of people roughly these places, I know I'm gonna get to have these experiences, I think that sameness is really important to people.

And maybe this is illusion and maybe it's real, but I feel like for families that part of the the experience of the early and mid-20th century was there was always a homestead to come back to or a hometown to come back to, that's less common. And in some ways, this festival experience of I know in September, I'm going to get to do this in this place is part of what's made people return and part of what's made the festival last. The other thing that I think has made it last all this time is that the festival manages to be at the same time, a place that's countercultural, and a place that reinforces a safety culture. So, you know, the festival started in 1972. And you know the kinds of things that were happening in 1972 in the United States. Things were really disrupted. And part of that was expressed through how people came together, and took some of their clothes off and put some new chemicals in their bodies, right, and you know, had a little bit of a wild time. And there's some space for those kinds of things at the festival today.

And at the same time, it's a place where you can come together and know that your kids are safe and sing gospel tunes, and kind of reconnect with something that maybe feels a little more nostalgic and family oriented. And the festival has managed to be a place for all of that.

DANIEL: And you talk about the sameness. If you look at other long standing festivals throughout the country like Burning Man, it's honestly kind of surprising the festival hasn't ended with the fate that a lot of those other things of corporate takeovers and like and just, you know, like all the other long standing festivals, so it's really impressive that you talk about the sameness, like I feel like it's like a big part of why the festival is so great for so many people because a lot of festivals have changed drastically over the years.

SETH: Absolutely. And this is where I need to let people know I'm a student of the festival. I'm not a spokesperson for the festival. But it's pretty clear that there were two or three places along the way where the festival could have moved out of private hands. So the Walnut Valley Association was originally incorporated by three people. Within a few years it was entirely owned by the Redford family. So almost all of its history, the Redford family has taken all the risks and whatever rewards have been associated with it and they could have sold out, they could have gone for big beer sponsors or big soft drink sponsors, they could have sold to people who would have moved it to another place and through I'm gonna say a creative stubbornness, they just have not and I think we're the better for it.

SARA: Oh, absolutely.

DANIEL: We're not gonna see a holographic Bill Monroe anytime soon.

SETH: You know, I would pay to go to RockyGrass and see the hologram Bill Monroe, but I don't want it at Winfield.

SARA: Do you have to have a corporate sponsor to get a hologram?

DANIEL: Yeah, they have holograph money.

SETH: But the question -- oh, I'm sorry.

SARA: I was just gonna say I really liked your talking about like the coming home because you do see, like there's a bumper sticker that says coming home to Winfield. And then I really liked, there was one part of your book where they were talking about... somebody was sharing the memories where they, you know, these are the people that they see every single year, but only at bluegrass, only at Winfield. And so there is that just community that has sprung up for like two weeks out of the year in Winfield. And so it's just... it is a very comforting, cozy, homey feel. I love that. I get goosebumps.

SETH: And I get a little choked up about it because from 1989 to now, the experience that I have in the rest of the non-Winfield world is increasingly polarized and increasingly tough for people to be together. And, you know, we come together and we make community together for this short period of time. And there are a lot of things that we don't talk about. And I know I'm camping with people who don't see the world the same way I do. And it works. And I just want more of that in my life outside of September.

SARA: Music is the glue that holds? I don't know, I'll let it... I'll let it go there.

SETH: Yeah. To the question of will this last another 50 years, I... it certainly has to evolve to recognize that the population that enjoying this, enjoys this music now is aging. This is getting passed on but passed on to smaller and more focused groups. I have no doubt in 50 years that people will be coming to Winfield, Kansas for something that carries on this tradition. I think probably a lot of it will have the same elements it has now and that it had 50 years ago. I don't know if it will be the same structure.

SARA: That's fair. But I think that, you know, bluegrass is still very much... I mean, it's not hugely mainstream. But I mean, with people like Billy Strings, or and the folk movement has not gone anywhere. That's still... I mean, at least it comes up on my --

DANIEL: We're coming up on a nostalgia cycle.

SARA: -- music streaming service. So you know, I think that those, there's still something about those styles of music that speak to people in our generation. Hopefully, I think even in the younger generations, right?

DANIEL: Yeah, but look at TikTok too, right? Like people are actually like learning dances again and like sharing them through media and I can see something like that happening with folk music in some regards. People like learning a song by watching a video rather than like, looking at the sheet music or whatever. So yeah, maybe yeah.

SARA: I think, I think that you're right, it probably will have to evolve over the years, but hopefully it won't lose the --

DANIEL: A lot more ukuleles.

SETH: Bring on the ukuleles.

DANIEL: It's so accessible.

SARA: There's only what, four strings?

DANIEL: Yeah.

SARA: Four strings. There is a quote by the musician M. Ward about how one of the greatest things about music is that it has the capability to time travel. Maybe this is speaking to this topic that we're just talking about. It also makes it the perfect fit for a book about time. Are there any songs that you can think of that bring you to a different time or place in your life that you want to share with us? I should say you want to share on live podcast recording.

SETH: Yeah, we could burn the rest of this time with answers to this question. But two examples from Walnut Valley Festival artists who've been important to the festival. One of those is Tom Chapin, since we already talked about him, Tom Chapin's kind of second career phase was putting out children's and family albums. And he released around in like 1990 right around there called This Pretty Planet. So when I learned it first, I was somebody going to the festival who was teaching Sunday school and being a camp counselor so I learned this song for that. And then I had kids and it was a song that I sang with my kids. And we're in our first semester now of being empty nesters. So I hear this song now. And you know, it takes me back to all those stages of life. So to have lived with a song for 35 years now or something is remarkable.

Another really specific one, New Grass Revival was a group that was at the very first Walnut Valley festival and it's a really legendary bluegrass group. And it had kind of two main lineups. Its later lineup, its late '80s, early '90s lineup was the lineup that I saw at Winfield and they did a song called You Plant Your Fields, which had been recorded before by Dan Seals. It was written by Donny Lowery and Wendy Waldman. And when I was starting to date my now-spouse, Jenny, whose dad was part of that Walnut Valley Association corporation, you know, I was this heavy metal and folk music kid. She was this kind of country pop folk person. And one of the first songs that we found that we both loved was this New Grass Revival song. And so it's a song that you'll hear somebody do in the campground every year. And I always think of those dating years.

SARA: That's sweet. We'll have to find those because I'm not familiar with either of them. But now I want to listen to them.

DANIEL: I think it's interesting you brought up the folk music connection to children's music and how that was a pipeline in the '70s and '80s, the to '60s folk peoples. Like, because Fred Penner, Mary -- Sherry the elephant or it was Sherry, I forgot the whole bit, but it was like three people. They were a folk act before --

SETH: Sure, yeah.

SARA: Skid-a-mer-rink-a-rink-a-rinky-dinky-doo?

DANIEL: Yeah, they were a folk act. There's a bunch, there's like this whole pipeline. And that's actually how I discovered folk music was because I was watching Nickelodeon.

SARA: I mean, I discovered folk music because my parents really liked it. But they still like it. Hence why we go to the festival, or we went to the festival.

DANIEL: One of the essays talks about the year the festivals flooded out.

SARA: Oh, I was there that year.

DANIEL: Oh, yeah.

SARA: So we wanted to ask you about the festival's share of its weather-related challenges. There is that essay in the book, and then having lived through it, the festival is rain or shine. And how do you think that this has added to the character of the festival? And let's talk a little bit about that. Can you tell us -- I know, but can you tell our listeners kind of like the extremes of the festival?

SETH: You know, there are jokes that are all surprisingly true that, you know, when you come for, particularly if you come for the whole camping experience that you're gonna get all five seasons, and sometimes the same day. And it's... there, there was a guy who for a number of years, kind of worked to get festival information online, a great guy named Don Chirac, one of those early coders and web guys, and he would go through and provide weather information historically. And you know, there have been frosty days, and there have been flood days, and there have been 100 degree days, like that people have experienced all of it. The weather is a character every year.

And even my friends who don't go but who ask me about how the festival's been will say, "Oh, and you had great weather this year," or "Oh, what was it like when the... you know, the storm rolled in?" Some of it is I think that most of us don't spend most of our lives outside. And so to all of a sudden have 10 days where, "Oh, yeah, I really have to think not just for an hour or not just walking back and forth to my car, but like for my whole day, how am I gotta deal with the weather?" So that adds to it.

But some of it is that fall in Kansas is wild. And the third weekend in September can bring anything. The years where there have been such extremes, like the floods that camping in those sites was not possible, had been the most disruptive. They're really costly to the festival because people are much less likely to buy day tickets. But they've also been great stories of resilience. So what do you do when your camper's stuck in the mud? Well, a stranger with a tractor from down the road is likely to come pull you out. And then if you don't want to go home, you go, "Well, there's a park in Oxford or there's the Winfield city lake or where else can we go?" Because the community is more important than that original campsite.

And also, what's a wet tush between friends?

DANIEL: So you... do you play instruments, right?

SETH: I... so my instinct is always to be falsely modest. I'll just be actually modest. So yes, most of the folk and bluegrass music instruments I play at least at a rudimentary level. I am a competent rhythm guitar player, and I am an intermediate or a little beyond autoharp player.

SARA: Okay.

DANIEL: Cool.

SETH: I also teach some years a very beginning ukulele class.

DANIEL: Oh, that's really cool. So the autoharp you've like, can you talk about that instrument a bit? I'm not familiar with it.

SETH: For people who aren't, who don't have an immediate mental picture of autoharp, most people introduce -- are introduced to it in elementary school music as a kind of triangular instrument that you sit on your lap and you push, hold a button and strum. More serious autoharp players hold it up by their shoulder and they play it without looking at it.

DANIEL: That's wild. You're not there yet?

SETH: Oh, yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Oh, wow. Wow, that's cool.

SARA: Have you ever participated in any of the -- or competed in any of the competitions?

SETH: I have not. And it's because I have trouble making myself focus on an instrument. I just, I'm kind of like you in some ways. I just want to play the chords and sing. But I have thought off and on, If I spent a year really focused on just autoharp, I could probably be at a stage where I could enter the contest and not embarrass myself.

SARA: Bet you'd be really good.

DANIEL: You should do it.

SARA: We should have asked you to play for us on this podcast. I didn't even think about that. We've never had a musicianal -- musicianal, really? -- we never had like a musical act on the podcast.

SETH: Well, that's kind of you. But there are a million people we can provide links for to instruct folks a lot more than I ever would.

SARA: That's fair. Can anyone find your music? Is it anywhere online? Have you recorded anything? Okay.

DANIEL: So, speaking of the millions of links we could share, who's your favorite act to perform at Walnut Valley?

SETH: Well, my all-time favorite and it's an emotional connection is John McCutcheon. And John McCutchen is a singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist who has performed at Winfield every year that I've been there. And there's a great quote by Michael McKean, the actor who also has been in those Spinal Tap and Mighty Wind, like those things. He, so Michael McKean also writes music with his wife Annette O'Toole, and he said something once that was like, a good song makes you cry. A great song lets you cry. John McCutcheon writes a lot of songs that let me cry. And there aren't a lot of people or places or moments in my life where that happens. So that, that's the enduring favorite.

SARA: He wrote an essay in the book, correct?

SETH: He did. Yeah, he contributed to a really kind essay about what it's like to be a performer and why he comes back every year.

DANIEL: That's awesome.

DANIEL: But to ask about favorites is so hard because it's sort of like, well, do you mean my bluegrass favorite or my Irish favorite or my solo guitar favorite or my like the... you could almost pick a name and I'd tell you why I love that artist. Bluegrass favorite. Well, so Alison Krauss is the obvious choice. It's hard to get better than Alison Krauss. But both as a favorite and someone that your audience might want to check out is Molly Tuttle, T-U-T-T-L-E. Molly, she has been a performer at Winfield one year. She is a phenomenal flatpick guitar player, flatpick guitar being the guitar style most associated with bluegrass. She's also kind of invented her own guitar style that's more of a claw hammer style. So borrowing from old time banjo techniques, and she's a great singer, and she's a great songwriter, and she always has just a blisteringly good band and two full length albums and an EP. But on the bluegrass side, it doesn't get better than Molly Tuttle right now.

SARA: Bluegrass favorite. Great. I'm gonna check her out.

Okay, folk music. You said we should just keep asking you, so I'm just gonna keep asking you.

SETH: Yeah, so I'll give you an old school and a new school answer. So the old school answer is a husband and wife duo called Small Potatoes. And they performed at the festival probably eight or 10 times over the years. Sounds like the years you were going as a kid you likely would have seen them.

SARA: Okay.

SETH: And they wrote some original music, including a song that was a winner at the Kerrville Folk Festival new song showcase, but mostly they collected cowboy songs and Celtic songs and gospel songs and songs from the Chicago singer-songwriter tradition and figured out how to do them with really fun harmonies and penny whistle and guitar. And so if you want just some folk music that, you know, the kinds of folk musicians who also did kids music would be performing, dig out Small Potatoes. A much newer group. And I started to think of them when we were talking about musical saw, there's a group called The Barefoot Movement. And it's mostly original, a few eclectic covers, interesting instrumentation. And the reason I was thinking of them with musical saw is they have a version of Don't Fear the Reaper, you know, the Blue Oyster Cult song that you hear every Halloween, done as a folk song with musical saw as the spooky background.

DANIEL: Oh, cool. I'll have to check that one out.

SARA: Okay. All right. Yes, good. And it's just in time because this will come out probably right before Halloween.

SETH: Oh yeah, go find it.

SARA: Okay, well, okay.

So for anybody that wants to like break into the folk music genre, they've, they're new to the music style. What recommendations do you have for that?

SETH: So my overall recommendation is, don't be too precious about it. So you know, there are people who will tell you, this is bluegrass or this is folk music. And the... what the Walnut Valley Festival has proved for 50 years is, whatever music you can enjoy and appreciate and play together is a great way to start. If you were looking for one artist that had more to do with the trajectory that became the Walnut Valley Festival than any other, it's Doc Watson. Doc Watson was a guitar player who contributed a whole lot to this guitar style. But he was also a storyteller, and he was also a guy who loved to jam with other people. And he was a guy who wouldn't mind doing a song five different ways five different times. So kind of looking for something that's a little more historical, listen to Doc Watson and you'll get the feel of it.

DANIEL: I have, this is like a really like deep pool question. I figured you might be the guy to ask. I'm really big into like a couple things. I'm a horror buff. So like Appalachia is really big right now. I'm also like, my family's from that area so I'm really big into field recordings, like those early recordings of songs that they only... do you have any recommendations for like good albums or compendiums? Archival? Like I get like, do you have a favorite repository like that, like an archival album that is like from...

SETH: Yeah, the... so anything that was released on Smithsonian Folkways is the place to start and Alan Lomax's collection is kind of the definitive one. So that's the jumping off point. There also, John McCutcheon, who I referenced, early in his career did some of that kind of work. And it's not difficult to find a documentary film that he did in the early '70s with, I'm going to say fiddlers, might have been mountain dulcimer players. But like, he did a lot of just tell me who's the fiddler in this town kind of folk recording collections.

DANIEL: Oh, cool.

SETH: And then the other artists, you should check out, Betsy Ellis, who's from the Kansas City area and for a number of years played with the Wilders who were just a phenomenal, lively old-time group. Betsy is one of those students particularly of fiddle players who can tell you, here's this person, here's how you access their recordings. And here's why they matter. So lots of jumping off places for that.

SARA: I loved the Wilders. We saw them on stage five, several times.

SETH: Yes. And the Wilders are an example of a group that was pretty much playing old-time music, which has some overlap with bluegrass, it's a little different. And people watching them didn't know, they were just like this super fun jumping up and down country group, right?

SARA: Yeah, super high energy.

SETH: So you can enjoy the music without having all the academic labels for the music.

SARA: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I feel a lot smarter just talking to you. I would be interested in some of the things that you did research that didn't make it into the book. Are you planning any sort of like part two, the academic version?

SETH: I'm probably not returning to this subject with my academic historian hat on. I am interested in continuing to collect Winfield stories. And I don't know what is the future venue for that. And I would love to help the Walnut Valley Association turn its amazing collection of documents and images into something that's a little more research friendly for other people who want to come along and do this kind of work. So you know, some of it's when I hit the lottery kind of thing. But our younger kid was looking at colleges, and she's a mountain dulcimer player. And one of the places that we visited where she didn't end up going was East Tennessee State University. And it has a fabulous bluegrass and Appalachian archives. And so one of the things that maybe could happen to the next few years is I'd like to learn a little more from them about how they've arranged things and see, is there something, you know, maybe through the Walnut Valley Association, maybe in partnership with Wichita State University where I work, but is there a way that we can create an accessible archives here of the important bluegrass and folk music that's happened in Kansas?

DANIEL: That would be awesome. As librarians, we love that.

SETH: Or maybe I should be talking with the local history folks with the Wichita Public Library.

DANIEL: Totally.

SARA: I was maybe gonna mention that to you after we signed off on this podcast. I mean, you know, we might have some resources for you. Okay, so you're not revisiting it in this way. What other upcoming projects do you have? Where can we find your work?

SETH: I'm not committing to them as projects, but a couple of my other Kansas research interests, one is Carrie Nation, and I've done some writing and researching about Carrie Nation and --

SARA: The band or the lady mashed up the hotel?

SETH: Yes, good question. I like the band too. But I'm specifically interested in Carry A. Nation, the person. She's kind of my sweetie.

SARA: Okay. Interesting choice, but okay.

SETH: Well, I'm very interested in her relationship with a newspaper publisher in Topeka named Nick Chiles. And I'm just very interested in how she was able to go viral with no authority. And I think there are some lessons for us now about how does somebody with no title capture attention and then what do you do with it?

DANIEL: It's the branding, it was the tomahawk.

SARA: You know what? Now I'm interested, so great. You've already sold me.

SETH: You're immediately interested. And then a much less fun topic, but one that I've done some writing about and feel like I ought to revisit is about a Wichita based evangelist named Gerald Winrod, who was both a perpetrator of horrific hate speech that was antisemitic and anti-Catholic, but also a victim of the U.S. government clamping down on free speech during the World War II era. And so he's this completely unsympathetic character who also got a really raw deal. And I think that's an interesting story. That does sound very interesting. Okay, cool. Well, Seth, thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast. It was really great to talk to you about something that I love dearly. But also I learned so much just, you know, through our conversation and through the book.

DANIEL: Yeah, you're an awesome person to talk to you. You have like a whole like gigantic library of knowledge inside your head. And it's really, you know, it'd be cool talking about other stuff too.

SARA: Stop by any time!

DANIEL: Yeah, stop by. Keep writing books so we can have you back.

SETH: Excellent. And my office is at Second in Mead, like we could meet for coffee, right?

SARA: Okay, yeah.

DANIEL: Cool, that sounds great.

SARA: Well, we'll show you the local history archive.

SETH: Oh, yeah, I need to spend more time there. And for people who are interested in the Walnut Valley Festival, every year is the best year to come.

SARA: I love that. Great. Well, thank you so much.

DANIEL: Yeah, had a great time talking to you. And yeah, we'll see you around.

SARA: Check out Seth's book, Winfield's Walnut Valley Festival. Bye.

DANIEL: Bye.

VOICEOVER: Did you know that the Wichita Public Library has a wealth of local history resources that you can use? From old yearbooks to newspaper archives to genealogy databases, you can find it all here. Located on the second floor of the Advanced Learning Library, our knowledgeable staff can help you with every task from finding newspaper articles that made Wichita history to researching your family tree. For more information, visit wichitalibrary.org/research/localhistory.

IAN, VOICEOVER: Here's some reading recommendations for category six, a book about time, and other ReadICT categories from our community of readers in the ReadICT Facebook group. If you'd like to leave your own book review to be featured in a future episode of this podcast, call our book review hotline at (316) 261-8507. Leaving a review is easy. After the voice prompt, record your name, location if you're outside Wichita, what ReadICT category your book recommendation is for, title and author of the book, and a brief reason why you recommend it to other readers. If you're looking to connect with other like-minded readers online, be sure to join our Facebook group. After logging into Facebook, search for the group ReadICT challenge and click join. You can also find more reading recommendations for this and other categories by visiting wichitalibrary.org/readict.

CALLER 1: Hi, my name's Michelle. I live in Wichita. I read Bride's Story. It's by Kaoru Mori. And I really think it's a good book series because it really follows storylines from a different culture and the more anthropology kind of studying and it really goes into like weaving and what the women do and how important culture and family connection is, just how different our society is from someone else's. It's a manga, but it goes a lot deeper than that. Thank you, bye.

CALLER 2: This is Katrina and I was trying to reach the repair division of Quanatic Solutions. My rented SC-3000 Time Machine seems to have stopped and I don't know where or when I am. I found the book you put under the seat titled How to Invent Everything by Ryan North. And it does promise to help me rebuild all civilization with 96 percent fewer catastrophes this time, but I'm not sure I want to be in charge of inventing language or farming and, and the appendix titled "useful chemicals: how to make them and how they can definitely kill you" is a little intimidating. Could someone please come and pick me up? Yeah, in the meantime, I'm going to focus on chapter nine, "basic nutrition: what to eat so you won't die for at least a little while longer." But please hurry.

CALLER 3: Hi, my name is Alyssa. I live here in Wichita. The book I'm recommending is Little Monsters by Adrienne Brodeur. I think her last name is French. I'm not sure. I really liked this book. It was a good book that represents different, some different mental health situations. One of the main characters lives with bipolar disorder. And I feel like Adrienne did a really good job of showcasing what it would be like to live with a disorder like that. I also love how she wrote each chapter from a different perspective. I don't always see that a lot. I really, really enjoyed how she wrote it and how she intertwined each of the characters and how each of the voices felt unique to each one. They didn't all sound the same. You could definitely tell the different characters within the story really, their voices shines through. And it was a book that I actually was recommended to me via Jennette McCurdy's book club. I just happened to see that she recommended it to her followers. And I was like, you know what, I really liked her book, I'll read it and see what I think and it turned out to be pretty awesome, pretty awesome read, so highly recommend. And that's it. Thank you.

CALLER 4: Eura Kohler from Derby, Kansas, fiction/thriller, Our American Friend by Anna Pitoniak. If you're looking for a thrilling book about spies in the government, this might be for you. I enjoyed the journalist's perspective and hearing from a first lady's perspective as well.

CALLER 5: Hello, this is Jessica Gouvion from Wichita, Kansas. I'm recommending The Betrothed by Alessandro Manzoni. It's a classic. The reason why I'm recommending it is because it's a great adventure tale about a young couple in 1600s Italy. They're separated right on the verge of getting married and they have to endure all sorts of disasters and meet a wide cast of characters in their attempt to reunite. Thank you.

CALLER 6: Hi, my name is Beth Burgess. I'm calling about a graphic novel category. The book is titled When Stars Are Scattered by Victoria Jamieson and Omar Mohamed. When Stars Are Scattered is a graphic novel about a boy named Omar who grew up in a refugee camp in Kenya, is a beautifully written look into the life of refugees and how hope can keep you going during hard times. Thank you.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Oh, that was a great interview. It was really awesome to get to talk with Seth and learn about the Walnut Valley Festival's history. Honestly, kind of changed my mind. I think I'm gonna have to check it out next year.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Hey-oh! I knew he would do that for you.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: I'll make sure to bring my spoons. A list of books discussed in today's episode can be found in the accompanying show notes. To request any of the books heard about in today's episode, visit wichitalibrary.org or call us at (316) 261-8500.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Thank you to Seth Bate for joining us for today's recording. We'd also like to thank those of you who shared recommendations with us.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: This has been a production of the Wichita Public Library and a big thanks goes out to our production crew and podcast team.

SARA, VOICEOVER: To participate in the ReadICT Reading Challenge, please visit wichitalibrary.org/readict. Stay connected with other ReadICT participants on the ReadICT challenge Facebook page, find out what's trending near you, post book reviews, look for local and virtual events, and share book humor with like-minded folks. To join the group, search #ReadICT challenge on Facebook and click join.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: And don't forget to log your books in the reading tracker app, Beanstack. Each month you log a book in the challenge, you're eligible to win fun prizes. If you need any assistance signing up or logging books, give us a call, reach us on chat, or stop by your nearest branch.

SARA, VOICEOVER: You can follow this podcast through the Spotify app or stream episodes on whatever platform you listen to podcasts. If you liked what you heard today, be sure to subscribe and share with all your friends. Bye!

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Have a good one.