Season 3, Episode 10: Volcano Lair? In This Economy?

Sara and Daniel interview prolific sci-fi author John Scalzi for #ReadICT category 12: A book by an author visiting Wichita. They talk about John's most recent novel Starter Villain, hyper-intelligent cats and what it's like receiving celebrity fan mail.

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[MUSIC]

SARA, VOICEOVER: Hello and welcome to Read. Return. Repeat. We've made it to our final episode of the season.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Oh yeah, so today's episode 10 and the category's an author visiting Wichita.

SARA, VOICEOVER: That's right.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: I thought I'd dig deep in the archives because visiting authors and see like some of the authors that came to Wichita in the past. The first one I found was Jack London has been here.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Oh, Jack London. I read Call of the Wild, White Fang.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: White Fang, all the wild, wilderness books. And he came here I think 1901. Edgar Allan Poe's grandson did actually live here.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Did Edgar Allan Poe's grandson write any books?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: No.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Would we have featured him on our podcast?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: The Wichita Eagle archives loved to mention it. And then also --

SARA, VOICEOVER: Did Edgar Allan Poe ever make it?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: He died in 1850.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Why do we care that his grandson lived here?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: I don't know, it kept coming up.

SARA, VOICEOVER: All right. Cool, cool, cool. Who else you got?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: We know like Maya Angelou has obviously visited.

SARA, VOICEOVER: That's right. We have a whole branch named after her.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Langston Hughes, Truman Capote visited during research because -- For In Cold Blood. And Allen Ginsberg, the famous poet who --

SARA, VOICEOVER: It makes sense. That's right.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: -- recorded or he a wrote a poem about Wichita called the Wichita Vortex Sutra.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Yeah.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: And I thought this was a fun article because he did the first reading of this poem in 1966. That appeared in Life Magazine, a couple of weeks after that in February of 1966.

SARA, VOICEOVER: And he read it here in Wichita, right?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: He read it here in Wichita, and this is a headline. This is how the Wichita Eagle reported it. Let me... yeah, they put "Bearded Poet to Help Open Old Beanery." What's a beanery? I'm not sure if it's a place they serve beans but --

SARA, VOICEOVER: No, like a coffee shop, right?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: It has to be a coffee shop.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Beans.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: "Bearded poet Allen Ginsberg will read his poetry at 8:30 p.m. Monday at the grand opening of the Magic Theatre Vortex, 625 East Douglas," which is now I think Spaghetti Works district or Naftzger Park.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Oh, okay. All right. Actually, that's right. Because when we were researching for the History Walk, it's right around there that we made the stop.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: That's cool. It's cool to know that yeah, we close at eight so hopefully some of our old library colleagues could have attended.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Probably, we probably weren't open until eight back then.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Yeah.

SARA, VOICEOVER: But 1963?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: '66.

SARA, VOICEOVER: '66.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Who knows?

SARA, VOICEOVER: All right. Well, hey, let's get to this episode.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Let's jump into the show!

SARA, VOICEOVER: I'm pretty excited about who we've got today. We've got John Scalzi.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Awesome.

SARA, VOICEOVER: John Scalzi writes books, good ones. He's best known for writing science fiction, including the New York Times bestseller Redshirts, which won the Hugo Award for Best Novel. He also writes nonfiction on subjects ranging from personal finance to astronomy to film and was the creative consultant for Stargate Universe television series. I didn't know some of that, but that's okay. He enjoys pie, as should all right thinking people. It was important enough that he felt to include that in his bio. You can get to his blog by typing the word "whatever" -- literally, whatever --

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Type "whatever" into Google.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Yeah, he's, that's what he recommends.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Oh, that's so cool. We're going to talk to him today about his newest novel, which brought him to Wichita earlier this year in 2023, Starter Villain. So let's go ahead and say hi to John.

SARA, VOICEOVER: All right.

SARA: All right, and we are here with John Scalzi.

DANIEL: It's so awesome to meet you.

JOHN SCALZI: Good to be here.

SARA: John, if you could just go ahead and get us started with telling our listeners about the book, what is Starter Villain about?

JOHN: The way that I've described it in a very brief way is down on his luck average Joe inherits his mysterious uncle's supervillain-y business and, and of course, from there hijinks ensue as they would, as they must because it's a novel. What else are you gonna do?

SARA: And that kind of sums it up really well, but along the way, we get to meet some very smart cats and dolphins. We touch on all kinds of different like social issues there.

JOHN: It was, it was interesting because I wrote this last year and I had no idea that this last summer would be hot labor summer. So having a, having a labor subplot was kind of interesting. And then, of course, 2023 becoming the year the billionaires just went like mask off, "by the way, we're terrible people," you know, that was also not timed. Not surprising, but not timed. But I have to say, all of these things happening at the same time as my book coming out? Good, it was good for the book.

DANIEL: Yeah, no, it was very relevant. I was like, there's even like NFT references and stuff. So yeah.

JOHN: Yes, yes, absolutely. Now, the one that I'm proudest of, though, is -- and without getting spoilers -- the fact that there are whales in the book, and then you have those orcas off of Portugal, sinking yachts?

DANIEL: Oh my goodness, I just realized that connection!

JOHN: I was like, I can, I should, I don't predict the future. But apparently, maybe I should. Because it's a whole thing.

DANIEL: Science fiction becomes science facts.

JOHN: Exactly.

DANIEL: So you make it clearly illustrated that being a villain does not necessarily mean one has to be a bad person. In the world you've created, what does it mean to be a villain?

JOHN: Well, I mean, in this particular case, they've sort of, they've sort of stacked the deck, right? By saying, "Oh, no, this is what a villain really means." And even the, even the main character is like, wait, that is literally not what the definition of villain has been for the last 400 years. You're just changing it to, for your convenience. Which is a thing that people do, right? They like, you know, they'll take a word, and they're like, but this is what it really means. And they try to jazz it up, and they try to make it something that it's not. In the universe that that I have created, villains are actually villains. But you have this group of people who is like, oh, but is being a villain really that bad? And the answer is, yes, yes, it is actually that bad. But our main character being introduced into this world and being given the tools of villainy, the question becomes, what will become of him? Is he going to go full actual villain? Or is he going to use the tools of villainy to dismantle, as it were, you know, decades and centuries of institutionalized systemic villainy? So that is kind of the real question of the book. So in my universe, villainy is what it is in this universe. But people would like to pretend it was otherwise.

SARA: Yeah, it seems very, like real life villainy, right? Like not this, not like James Bond villain, necessarily, who's like, I am so evil and I have a German accent. It's like, normal people that you might read about on the news.

JOHN: Right. I mean, but that was the whole point, right? That was the whole thing is that when you think, when you think of a James Bond villain, right, he's like, "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die. Mwahahaha." Right? But if you think about them, they only really work within the context of the movie, right? You know, their plan is to steal all the gold from Fort Knox. And you're like, okay, but what then? Because it's not like they're not going to find you, like trying to peddle the Fort Knox gold. Or, you know, or you take over the world? And you're like, okay, well, now you're responsible for crop failures in Rwanda, right? You know, how are you going to deal with that? You know, they never actually deal about outside of the confines of I'm a villain for plot purposes, so I can be defeated. They never talk about the sort of after effect of villainy.

And that was what was fun for me with this is to be thinking about the day to day of what it means to be a villain, particularly what it means to be a villain now, where, you know, like, the United States knows where you are all the time, they just, they've got the satellites and so does China and so does Russia. And so does -- I'm letting a cat out -- and so do like lots of other countries. It's not like you can just be a James Bond villain anymore. You can't just get away with you know, hiding somewhere and then sort of erupting out with his plan to take over the world. So that was the thing that was really fascinating to me is like, if you were going to go down the villain path, how would you do it on a daily repetitive basis, right? And that's why, for example, so many of the supervillains in this thing are like yes, we're evil, but it's a great subscriber benefit.

SARA: Yeah, villainy by subscription.

JOHN: Villainy by subscription.

DANIEL: I liked how even the main character, it's like, he's like down on his luck. So it's like, he's a kind of like a victim of circumstance and like societal pressures or whatever with layoffs and stuff. And it's like, it's a great way to start the story because you don't want someone that's like completely outstanding or like, like a good person at heart. Like, because you don't know which way it's gonna turn, and I actually really liked the character.

SARA: You can't start with James Bond, you have to start with...

DANIEL: A guy who has nothing to lose.

JOHN: Right. Well, I mean, I think a lot of people have been in that position where they are essentially good people, and the world has just turned, not turned against them. But the world has not turned out the way that they expected it to, right? You know, our hero, Charlie, he's a former journalist. He is now working as a substitute teacher because that was the job that made sense while he was caring for his father, who was dying of cancer. And all of these things, you know, it's like life sometimes deals you a bad set of cards, and then you just have to, you have to work with it. And I thought that was kind of the best way to do it. Because everybody pretty much in their life experience either has had those sorts of setbacks or knows somebody who has that sort of setback. That is, you know, you've done everything that you were supposed to do. You're trying to do everything right. And it didn't turn out anyway. And so now you're just kind of like, well, what do I do now? And in his case, it is, oh, your mysterious uncle died. Which is of course, why novels are so much more interesting than in real life? Because mysterious uncles in real life rarely die and leave you everything. I mean, it would be better if they did. It's like I'm waiting for my mysterious uncle, the one I've never known about, to leave me billions. Is that so wrong? Am I wrong for wanting that? No.

SARA: Absolutely not.

JOHN: Absolutely not.

DANIEL: You know, if you don't have a mysterious uncle, you are the mysterious uncle.

JOHN: That you know, you may not be wrong about that.

SARA: I am definitely not the mysterious aunt, like, that's not, mm-hmm. I don't think it works the same way either for aunts versus uncles. I feel like the mysterious aunt like, oh, she just likes cats a lot.

DANIEL: You do not have like a Victorian style home though, so you are kind of...

SARA: I don't think that carries. So that's speaking of... speaking of an old lady with cats: what about the book's animals... I'm gonna say that again. What about the animals in the book? The cats and dolphins? Like were they inspired by any real-life animals in your life?

JOHN: No. And that's the thing is, is that course the cover of the book has the cat right? And people are like, is that your cat? I'm like, no. And I have to admit that all my cats are short hairs. And they just wouldn't have the same gravitas as a super fluffy cat that's on the cover. And I also tell people that if they really want one of my books, that the... that have characters that are based on my cats, they should go read my book, Fuzzy Nation, because there's a species of little short, cute, adorable aliens in it. And every single one of them is based off one of the cats that I had at the time, right? So if you want to know what my pets were like, that's the book to read. In this particular case, one of the inspirations for Hera, who is one of the cats, comes from a friend of mine, Mary Robinette Kowal, who is also a tremendous science fiction fantasy writer. She's won Hugos and Nebulas and Locus awards, and all that sort of stuff. But she has a cat Elsie, who has a bulletin board, right? And the button board has words on it. Each button has a word like play or eat or tired or whatever. And she's training her cat to press the buttons to communicate with her. And so I know I'd known about that before. But Mary Robinette is the first person who I know who has really started instituting that for for their own pets. And so she has conversations with the cats now, and I don't have a button board and I'm terrified what my cats would actually say if we gave them a button board. I think all my cats are fundamentally chaos demons so that would be a problem. But when it came to Hera and, you know, some of the other cats in the book, that was sort of the Genesis. So it's not my cat, but it is somebody else's cat. The cat really does exist.

DANIEL: So yeah, the cats just being like... I liked the dolphins a little bit better, I think. But I think one of my favorite parts of the book, though, is this kind of like when they go to the island and they meet the crypto bros and like, you just kind of hit the nail on the head with those characterizations.

JOHN: I mean, they're not that hard to figure out, right? It's like I'm a dude and I like money. I mean, I worked in tech in the 1990s and have dabbled off and on with it since then. And so as far as it goes, it's... that is not a type of person that is unknown to me. And it's not that, it's not that tech bros are uniformly terrible people. Just like nobody, no individual group of people is uniformly terrible. But --

SARA: Supervillains?

DANIEL: Yeah.

JOHN: You know, I mean not even the villains, you got to remember the book.

SARA: Oh, that's right. You're right, you're right.

JOHN: But the thing is that there is very definitely, you know, within the sphere of what it means to be a tech bro, there's a lot of leeway. But there are lots of things that they do have in common. And it was kind of fun to do that. The sort of heedless is like, yes, this, this will make us lots of money. And it's like, well, okay, but is that how it makes you money kind of unethical and weird? Like, I don't see what the question is here, you know, that sort of thing. Which is, which is not limited to, to be fair to the tech bros. But it is very definitely a sort of thing where you're like, think two steps ahead and where this will actually take you.

I remember at one point, I was actually doing some consulting, because I do that occasionally. And someone wanted to consult with me about this idea they had for a tech company. And I remember one of the questions that I asked him, I was like, you know, he laid out the tech idea and said, "Well, what do you think about that?" And I was like, "Well, here's the question: are you making this a company that will be profitable? Or are you making this a company that you're going to sell to someone else, and then that will be their problem? Because if you're doing one, then what you should do is very different than if you're doing the other." And he looked at me like I sprouted like a second head. But I was like, "Come on, guys. You know, let's be honest that most of these things that you that you do are make as much money as humanly possible, get out, and then live on your island off the coast of Puerto Rico."

SARA: I wouldn't mind that necessarily. But I feel like I would want to make some sort of like, actual contribution to the world.

DANIEL: I think that was a thing like because the book's called Starter Villain, there is like, a Shark Tank style scene, which I won't get into.

SARA: Which is actually very funny, though. So when you read the book --

DANIEL: Yeah. I think their favorite pitch in like one of the character's ideas was about the college admission hunger games.

JOHN: Yeah.

DANIEL: What are some of the worst -- like you've said you worked in like, the tech industry for over 20 years. What are some of the worst pitches you've heard?

JOHN: I mean, I haven't personally, like been pitched to that often. Like I said, I'm the person that when I have done stuff like this, I've been the person where they're like, what do you think, is a good idea? And not that I, you know, like, here's all this money that I'm going to give you or anything, but they wanted to use me as, as a sounding board. So the... when I got to, when I got to them, they were just mostly, they were mostly innocuous. Like, they were... like, somebody pitched me idea that was very Goodreads before Goodreads happened, you know?

DANIEL: Oh, wow.

JOHN: Yeah. And so I and I, and I feel for that guy, because then Goodreads happened like a month later, you know. And he was just like, I have this great idea. And then here comes Otis Chandler, you know, of the famous Chandler family that used to own the Los Angeles Times. And he comes up with Goodreads and then eventually sells it to Amazon and stuff like that. So most of the pitches that I have gotten were not horrible, but it's easy to, you know, it's easy just to imagine where someone's looking at something like, you know, where I make the joke, you know, soil as a service, right? Like, what if we gave you topsoil, and you rented it instead of actually having to, you know, just have it in the ground? and you'd be like, Okay, but why would I do that? Why would I Why would I rent topsoil? Why don't I just have topsoil? You know, and occasionally top it off with like, you know, fertilizers? But no, this is a much better idea, you know?

And just the again, the idea that you know, all the things that we see tech bros doing or that we see technology companies doing like subscriptions and stuff like that, in and of itself is not entirely new. I mean, in agriculture of all things, you have certain types of plants like corn that you are not legally allowed to save seeds for, right? Because they are patented by, by a company. They're, you know, genetically modified in some way or another to be resistant to bugs and stuff like that. And so rather than... rather than you taking some of that and saving it for next year, they're like, no, you have to buy the entire, you know, your seed stock from us. So that idea of X as a subscription, and it being kind of an evil way to do things, is definitely something that's been around for a while, is kind of peaking now, and why it is ripe for you know, cats as a service or, you know, gum as a service, whatever it is that you want.

SARA: "We'll chew it for you!"

JOHN: Right, exactly. It's like, "Who has time these days to chew? You know, certainly not you. Do you have the jaw strength anymore? No. What if someone else can chew it for you?" Right, exactly. Same sort of thing. You know what, this is not a bad idea. I'm gonna actually write it down.

DANIEL: I'm just waiting for the company that makes -- like, you remember, like college meal plans, and you had the meal plan card? I'm just waiting for some startup to like, make that a thing again, where you like pay in and just you can get meals with like card. Because I know it's like, that's just called budgeting.

SARA: Oh, yeah. I was like, I feel like that's just, can't you just do that?

DANIEL: Believe me, I would take full advantage of that.

JOHN: So what you're describing is basically a gift card to Taco Bell, right?

DANIEL: Yes, exactly. With packaging!

JOHN: I've got like $1,500 worth of seven-layer burritos here and I'm gonna eat my way through 'em.

DANIEL: I'm totally like, just put some of my favorites on there. Trader Joe's, Chipotle, just get them all partnered and put them on a card.

SARA: This is not an ad for Trader Joe's, Chipotle, or Taco Bell.

DANIEL: Just I'm waiting for that, because I know it's coming. Someone's gonna pitch the college meal card as an app and I can't wait. Uber, like one of the like food delivery services, probably.

SARA: But I'm just like why? But that gets back to your whole argument.

JOHN: There's no, there's no, there's no why. It's like, well, you know, it's like I have software on my computer, which used to be you bought it once and you might pay to update it every once in a while. But now they're like, no, you pay us a monthly fee. And you'll never have to update again. And, and I'm sitting there on one hand, it is convenient, right? Like I use Photoshop, right? So I'm no longer waiting for the point release of Photoshop to get all the new stuff, they just put it in. On the other hand, I don't own Photoshop anymore. If I stopped paying for my Adobe subscription, then I don't have it anymore. If I stopped paying for Spotify, then all of my playlists go away, you know? And, you know, the physical media of I have DVDs, but that are DVDs of movies that were from 10 years ago because I stopped buying them because I've got Netflix and Amazon Prime and you know, Hulu and all that sort of stuff. So and those things will, you know, we've seen that they just sort of materially take things away and bring them back. So thank goodness for books, right? Because you actually get to still keep your books. We... I mean, there are books as a service. It's called your library. Please do support your local library.

SARA: Are we a subscription service?

DANIEL: Yeah, that's what we always kind of like have been told, it's like anything you buy online, you're technically renting even though you say you purchased it if you look at the fine lines.

JOHN: Oh yeah, no, absolutely anything. No, but no, no, libraries are a subscription service in the sense that they're paid for annually by your taxes.

SARA: Oh, yeah.

DANIEL: And endowments from our foundation. And viewers, listeners like you.

SARA: "And listeners like you."

Okay, so let's talk about the Bond pieces of it. I know that we've talked a little bit about that. And there was definitely Bond vibes throughout the whole thing. I even watched Spectre last night because I know that that was part of the like Lombardi convocation scene and like I was really... because I'm not really a Bond fan, I'll be honest. It's okay, I liked Starter Villain a whole lot more than I liked Spectre. But what other kinds of media did you use to inspire this story?

JOHN: Well, I mean, the the fun of like the Bond films or Austin Powers, which is another sort of thing in that, a more comedic thing or The Incredibles which is, of course also has a volcano lair just like I do. The great thing about all of those is that when it came for me to write Starter Villain, I had in the culture all of these things that I could just basically use and I didn't have to explain, right? Like we all know what a James Bond supervillain is. We all know what Spectre is, you know, because we've had 60 years of James Bond movies. We all know what the volcano lair is about, all of these sorts of things. So in, or in when I drag them onto the screen, as it were, people aren't surprised. They're like, oh no, I get this. I get this reference, right?

SARA: Even though I don't like Bond, I was like, oh yeah, volcano lair. That makes sense.

JOHN: Yeah, yeah. No, that's the whole point. There are things and that thing about even though I don't watch Bond, I knew about this, is a perfect example of this. Because of pop culture, there are certain ideas and concepts and everything else that transcend their work. Even if you've never seen a James Bond movie, you know what a secret agent is. Even if you've never seen a James Bond agent movie, you know what the volcano lair is or something like that.

SARA: Or like a villain petting their cat.

JOHN: Yes.

DANIEL: Or a 300-inch television to watch, to make your announcements.

SARA: No, man, that's billions of dollars.

JOHN: Yes. But that's, but that's the whole thing is, is that one of the things that I really enjoy doing is taking the tropes and ideas that we already, all already know from common culture and playing with it. I did that in the previous book, which is The Kaiju Preservation Society, where I played with Godzilla sized creatures. I did it in Redshirts with the concept of the red shirts where everybody beams down, you know, it's Spock, it's you know, it's Kirk, it's Scotty, and it's Ensign Jones, who's gonna die, right? You know, all of that sort of stuff. Playing with the tropes that people think that they, or that they know, and then using them in new and surprising ways is kind of the fun for me. So I do a lot of ransacking of movies, obviously the James Bond ones. And like I said, the other two that I mentioned. I mentioned in the afterword that the Pitch and Pitch, which is the, you know, the the sort of Shark Tank thing that we were talking about, was, in some ways inspired by a video game, which was unrelated to, otherwise unrelated to like the James Bond stuff. So I'm just basically a pop culture packrat. I will just take all the stuff. And it was like, if I can jam it in there, that's great. And there are pluses and minuses. The plus is that like I said, for worldbuilding it's really easy to do. Now, there is a negative to it, which is that, you know, quite frankly, people are like, ah, could just stop with the pop culture references? Oh, my God, you know. So not everybody is, not everybody loves that sort of world building. And you know what, that's perfectly fair. But you know, it's a big world, there's lots of other things that they can read.

SARA: I found it highly enjoyable. So I'm fine with it. Keep doing it.

DANIEL: Speaking of world building, so you mentioned in your acknowledgments you caught COVID while writing the book. Do you think the pandemic kind of inspired some of that world building and how like the villainy appears today?

JOHN: I don't think directly. The book that had, that was most affected by COVID, actually was The Kaiju Preservation Society, which is the book that I wrote previous to this, which actually takes place between March of 2020 and March of 2021. So that was directly COVID times, right? I made a few glancing references to COVID in Starter Villain, but not too much. Again, I mean, it's not pretending that it didn't exist, right? But it is not, it was not an overriding theme. I will say that writing it, getting COVID was an interesting experience because I had managed to avoid it for like two and a half years. And then I finally got it. And my editor who had some, you know, some understanding of it, he's like, he's like, don't push yourself because, you know, COVID messes with your head. And so he said basically take a month off. And I was like, "Cool. You telling me I don't have to work for a month? Video games, here I come!" So there was that. And then a month after that, I was like, "Well, I think I can write again." And so I started writing. And then a month after that, the COVID cloud actually lifted. And I looked at the month worth of writing that I did and I was like, "Oh no. No one should ever, ever see this, this is terrible." So it definitely had an impact on the writing in the sense of basically a two-month hole in the schedule, but that did give me time to think more about the book and revise some scenes and to make it become the story that eventually came. I don't want to say that it was beneficial because a lingering viral disease that we don't actually know that much about is not the way to write. Don't do it. But you know, but it certainly had, it certainly had an effect on the ultimate shape of the book. Absolutely.

SARA: Good tip, by the way, for all writers out there: don't write during COVID. I don't know. I just wondered if like, you're sitting there, you know... because I also had COVID and I didn't get out of bed for like five days. And so then you're just like watching what's happening in the world. And you're like, ugh, villains! Surround them!

JOHN: Yeah, no, no, that, you know, that thing is honestly, just been the last few years. You know, independent of the pandemic, it just seems like, you know, our rich and money class has just finally been like, but what if we don't even pretend that we want to be beneficial to anybody else but ourselves anymore? Or the one that I get -- because people are like, you know, they read the book and it's like, "You don't like Elon Musk?" And I was like, "Well, I don't but that's not... you know, it's not about him particularly. He's just the, the one that's most famous for being completely off his, you know, off his rocker at the moment." But the one that gets me recently, is that there was the billionaire who's like, yeah, I've been drawing blood from my 17-year-old son and sticking it into my veins in an attempt to set stay young.

JOHN: Right?

SARA: I had not heard of that.

JOHN: I love the expression on your face right now. And it's like, he's like, and it's perfectly normal. And it's like, no, no it's not. You are literally --

DANIEL: A version of cult vampirism.

JOHN: Literally nobody has done this. You know, it's like, why don't we bleed the young so we can have their blood so we can live forever? Do you actually hear the words that are coming out of your mouth? And don't you understand how that makes you scary?

SARA: Also, that's not exactly how that works, is it?

JOHN: No, it's not. It's not. Yeah, exactly. It's like, you know, going back to Elizabeth Báthory, who used to like, you know, bathe in the blood of the young, she was like, look how young it's made me. And you're like, no, no, none of this is the way that that works. But just the fact that they've just completely lost the plot and nobody is going to tell them otherwise. The guys who would have told the billionaire, no, don't actually drain your child for their blood, have gone away. Right? Because they're like, you know what, peace out, we're gone. Because who wants to be around a guy like that? So the only people left are like sycophants who are like, "I'll get you the IV!"

DANIEL: I think that somewhere else where you kind of predicted things was kind of like the war on nepo babies.

JOHN: Yeah, yeah.

DANIEL: Nepotism babies, in the last year or so. Because like, all the like villains in your book are basically nepo babies.

JOHN: Yeah, well, I mean, and I don't think there's anything wrong with like, following your parents into their line of work or anything like that. But there is the thing of... the problem with with nepotism is not that, you know, an actor's child becomes an actor or a musician's child becomes a musician. It is if that child expects the same place or to assume the accomplishments of the parent or grandparent or whomever that came before. So that everybody has to basically put in the work, regardless of who you are. And I think that that is fine. But yeah, when you have a when you have a class who's like, don't you know, who my father is, you know, and uses that as a, as kind of like a business model or a way to go through life, then that's, then that's problematic. And that's what I think people actually object to when they see somebody who, whose parent was famous, and they seem to be famous because their parent is famous, not for anything else, anything that they've done particularly. It's that thing of being born on third base and thinking you hit a triple. I've not heard that before, but that is good. I like that.

SARA: So without spoiling anything in the book, because it's still fairly new, we want people to get out there and read it. It does end with Charlie having a bit of a foothold in this world of villains. Is that the end of Charlie's story? Should we expect Intermediate Villain anytime soon?

JOHN: [LAUGHS] It was written as a standalone. And I generally tell people that the whole point of writing a book is to have that individual book be a satisfying experience. That said, if my publisher came to me with a bag of money and said, "We would really like you to consider a sequel," then depending on the size of the bag of money, I might consider that. And of course, there's always things that you can do to bring back the characters. But I'm also content if the book just is the book, then that's perfectly fine with me. I wrote a book about 10 years ago, it's called Redshirts, right? And I've gotten a lot of people who was like, we would love to have a sequel to this, this book. And I'm like, okay, but two things is like one, I can't think of anything that I would want to write in that universe again. Because the, you know, the concept has already been dealt with. And the other thing is, is that I ended it where people got to have -- and this is not a spoiler, it's just so you know -- the people in it got to have their happy ending, so to speak. And if you've given people their happy ending, it's okay to let them continue to have their happy ending. You know, if people really want more of a book that I haven't written a sequel to, that's what fanfiction is for. Go ahead and write it. Never show it to me because lots of legal issues involved there. But absolutely if you feel like there's more to the story and you don't want to wait around for me to maybe do it or not, then go ahead, play with my dolls.

DANIEL: I think that's what's kind of cool with your writing and like, your like, because you can subvert tropes with your humor books with like, in, like in The Kaiju Preservation Society looks at like monster movie tropes and retro flicks, this thing that happens on Star Trek. It's like your voice is a sequel. And it's like, what's he gonna do? That's like, that's a really good testament to like a great storyteller is like, I don't need to see like, I just want to see where he takes us next, just like Jordan Peele in horror films right now.

JOHN: Yeah.

DANIEL: It's like, yeah, that's what I like.

JOHN: By the way, I'm absolutely going to steal "your voice is the sequel" because that is, that is a great encapsulation of it. And I think that that's accurate. I mean, I think the thing is, one of the things, one of the things that science fiction and fantasy writers are vaguely terrified about in an existential sort of sense is the idea of, do my readers like me, or do they like my series? Right? Like, if they have a series that has been particularly successful and stuff, is that going to communicate to if they write a standalone that they're going to actually like, that the readers are going to follow? Or do they just want more of this one particular universe? And as a person who has had at least one very successful series, the Old Man's War series, you know, it's not something that has not crossed my mind. And one of the things that I feel very fortunate about is that the standalone books that I have done, people do seem to be okay with them, that they do seem to be like, "Okay, what's the next story you're going to tell?" So I feel fortunate that people seem to enjoy the Scalzi experience, and not just one particular iteration of that.

The flipside of that is, is I know what my brief is, right? You know, I write accessible science fiction that you can give to people who don't read science fiction and be like, "Here, try this, you know, it's going to be funny, there's going to be some action, you know, the story is going to wrap up, you know, pretty quickly, it's not going to be a 500 page book, all that sort of stuff." And I'm great with that because that's what I would do anyway. But I do understand that that's what people come to me for. So if I try something weird and experimental, it will probably be with a small press and it will probably be novella length rather than a novel because the idea of people like reading it and be like, "Oh, wait a minute, that's not the Scalzi I love," it's something I do have to think about, you know? And like I said, it doesn't bother me because this is how I write, this is how I like to write. So the fact that people like that, and then I get to do more of it, great. But yeah, that's, that's part of the trick.

DANIEL: I have a quick question. So you've talked about, like people liking the series and the author. So you actually wrote the Fuzzy series, right? Like, I've been a librarian for 10 years, I've met Fuzzy fans. And they're a very archaic form of nerd. Like, they're like... it's a deep pool, the Fuzzy series.

SARA: Okay, so it's way beyond me.

DANIEL: When was it published, the series? The '70s I believe?

SARA: Thank you.

JOHN: Yeah. So what happened was, there was an author named H. Beam Piper, he wrote the... he wrote the Fuzzy series. There's Little Fuzzy, Fuzzies and Other People, Fuzzy Sapiens. And he passed away in like 1964. And for reasons that are sort of tragic, but his, the first book in the series, Fuzzy Nation -- or excuse me, Little Fuzzy, went into the public domain. And I wrote a sort of remake of that particular book, mostly because I was curious to see what it would be like. And when we went, it got sold and we published it, one of the things that we did was we went to the Piper estate and was like, "Hey, here's this book I wrote. If you like it, please, you know, give it an endorsement so people know that I'm not just tramping on the grave of H. Beam Piper. And if you hate it, then I'll put it in a drawer and you will never see it again." Because I didn't write it to, to actually sell it. I wrote it because I was curious to see if I could. And fortunately, the good news was that they did like it. We did get the endorsement. And when it came out, there were still a lot of people, there were still a lot of old school archaic fans, as you're say, who were like, "This is not a thing you should have done!" Which I totally get because it's like "you're tramping on my memories!" But very much of a, but there was very much of a thing, but 90 percent of the people were like, "Oh, this is cool. Like you did a new spin on an old story." So that's, that's the story of that one. And that's the one that, by the way, also has my cats.

By the way, I don't know if you can hear this, but my dog right outside this door has found a squeaky toy. So she sounds -- if you hear something that sounds like it's a chicken being strangled, that's what it is.

SARA: I was like, oh, he's got chickens too. That's nice.

JOHN: Yeah. No, no, no.

DANIEL: Farmer Scalzi.

JOHN: Yeah.

SARA: That's hilarious. Well, let's take a quick break. And then we'll come back and we'll keep talking with John Scalzi, author of Starter Villain.

VOICEOVER: Attention ReadICT superfans: if you're looking for a place to chat about your favorite books, get excellent reading recommendations for challenge categories, or just meet some new friends who love books as much as you do, check out the ReadICT challenge Facebook group. To join us on Facebook, simply search for groups using #ReadICT challenge and click join. For more information on the ReadICT challenge, visit wichitalibrary.org/readict.

DANIEL: And we're back. We're talking with John Scalzi today on Read. Return. Repeat.

So we talked about there's cats in Starter Villain. And this isn't my first time seeing some of your work involving like hyper intelligent cats. So you've had stories adapted and you've also written original scripts for Netflix's Love Death + Robots. Can you tell us about that experience and like, how much control did you have in the production? And was it kind of weird seeing your written creations appear on screen like in a surreal way?

JOHN: So what happened was I got my agent got an email from Blur Studios, which is the people who were doing Love Death + Robots for Netflix. And they had... name of a copy of my short story collection was called Miniatures, short stories that were literally about 2000 words long. And they wanted to adapt a couple of them for the first season of Love Death + Robots. And I was down with that because, you know, when you write a short story, you don't necessarily expect that that's going to be optioned for anything. So I was like, sure, why not. And that was the thing that got me in communication with Tim Miller, who is the... he's probably best known at this point for being the director of the original Deadpool, but is also the principal for Blur Studios, and was putting together with David Fincher, the whole Love Death + Robots series. And he's been, and Blur Studios have been great to work with because, one, they're fans, right? Not just to me, but with all the authors that they got the shorts stories from. And they have, they have a genuine respect for the authors and their participation in the process of bringing these things to the screen. So, you know, they're definitely doing their thing. And you know, they've got to do adaptations as opposed to just straight, you know, versions.

But particularly with the first season, they just kept me in the loop of all the things that they were doing and why they were doing it. They were always asking my opinion about stuff. And so, at one point, I was like, I had written a new story for an anthology. And I sent it to Tim, just for him to read it, because I thought that he would find it amusing. And he was like, "I liked this, I'm stealing it." And that was the one that became the three robots story, which is the one with the hyper intelligent cats. And then we when season two came around, and season three came around, they were like, you know, give us more stuff. You know, do you want to write them yourself, write the scripts? Cool, why not? And so I've been very fortunate to be very actively involved with every season of Love Death + Robots so far. I almost feel like I'm kind of like their good luck charm because they have, they have these stories that are dark and grim, and blood and death. And then you have the story where the yogurt is hyper intelligent and taking over the world.

DANIEL: Which I have to say, I have to say your episodes are palate cleanser. I just like watched one or the guy's like finds out his dream world is not what's real and he's actually cocooned by a giant space spider. And I'm like, ahh! And then it's like I watch one of yours and I'm like, whoo, okay, I can go to bed now and not have horrific dreams.

JOHN: And I think that that's exactly why they have my, my pieces in there, right? That they are, they show a little bit of range. And also, they keep it from being, you know, all grim all the time. They have done other comedic stuff. You know, they did the... you know, the night of the mini dead, which they had the tilt shift zombies and stuff like that. But yeah, no, they definitely have been coming to me being like, give us the funny stuff. And I'd be like, yes, sir. And here we are. So but it's been great. I mean, it is... I mean, I have a lot of stuff that's under development, under option that I'm participating in to a greater or lesser extent, and just generally speaking, working on Love Death + Robots has just been a kind of an unalloyed positive, they just are, they're just a joy to work with.

DANIEL: Awesome.

SARA: That's great. I have not seen it yet. But I don't, I can't tell if it's something that I would enjoy.

DANIEL: They're animated shorts.

SARA: But they're dark?

DANIEL: Some of them are. It's like, it's like Black Mirror.

SARA: Like Black Mirror the animated series?

DANIEL: The Wichita library has a free public screening of the Academy Award shorts so listeners are familiar with animated shorts. Yeah, definitely without promoting the streaming service it's on, check if you can get a chance to watch some of the episodes of Love Death + Robots.

JOHN: If you already have, if you already have the service that it's on, check it out. If you don't have the service it's on, eh, it's okay.

SARA: The Library might get it eventually.

DANIEL: Is there a physical media release of it yet?

JOHN: I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's typically not the Netflix thing to have a physical media. They in fact just cancelled their DVD service, which was kind of a shame because I actually was still subscribing to the DVD service. Yeah, because, you know, I'm an old man now. And I still have physical media. But yeah, so no. They're, it's kind of funny because they don't do a lot of... outside of Stranger Things, they didn't do a whole lot of merchandising. So like, for example, I have a couple of t-shirts that have Love Death + Robots on them. But the reason that I have them is because somebody illegally made them. And then I bought them. So I have paid a pirate for my own intellectual property, which I don't recommend. But on the other hand, you know, I want a Love Death + Robots t-shirt so, you know, what am I going to do? I'm not going to sit there and, you know, scribble one myself.

SARA: Good. That's great. So we've invited you on today's episode because you did get to come to Wichita earlier this year -- in 2023, because, you know, who knows when people will actually listen to this episode, but it's in 2023 that you came to promote Starter Villain. So did you get to see anything beyond the bookstore and the airport? Do you have any highlights from your trip?

JOHN: Yeah, unfortunately not, which was really sort of disappointing. I mean, getting to Wichita was a journey in and of itself, because had to -- I had to cancel my appearance because of flight issues, right? I was supposed to go from San Francisco to Wichita, and it was the only thing, only flight where I had a connection. And the airline, like, they put us on a plane, they brought the plane out, they started doing all the videos, the safety videos and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, the power went out, they started up the plane again, the power went out again, they brought us back to the gate. You know, had to... we had to wait a couple hours to get on another plane. By that time, I missed my flight to Wichita. So I'm like, we have to cancel and reschedule. I'm gonna go straight on to Denver, which was the next place my event was supposed to happen. Got on another plane, that plane had mechanical issues, got back to the gate, they're gonna put us on a third plane that was literally across the, you know, the terminal. We get to that gate. The nose cone has wires sticking out of it.

So you know, by the time that I finally got to Dallas, I had gotten to SFO airport at like seven o'clock in the morning, I finally got to my hotel room in Dallas at one o'clock in the morning. And it was just like then so the next day, I was like, screw it, I'm staying in bed and eating ice cream until I absolutely have to go to my event. So we missed Wichita, which was actually really disappointing for me because Wichita is a place that I had never been before. And one of the actually exciting things for me, as an author who tours a lot, is there's usually like, if I'm going to 10 places, eight or nine of them are places that I've been before. And like one of them isn't. And so the new place this time was Wichita, and I was really looking forward to coming to Wichita for the first time and getting to look around and see the place. So we had to reschedule. I flew in the day before, but in you know, in the evening, and then I woke up and I was like, oh, I should go do something. But they had... I wasn't downtown. I was in this little island of hotels, that was absolutely near nothing at all. Like, there were like no restaurants. There were no, there was nothing there. I had to walk to the Costco.

SARA: Tell us about that. I know exactly where you are.

JOHN: Yeah, you know exactly where I am, right? So I had to walk through the Costco and I had to like sneak in. And I had like a Costco hotdog in a slice of pizza for lunch, and then came to the event inside the bookstore and then immediately had to go back and then go back to sleep because I had to get up at like five o'clock in the morning. So I didn't get to see a lot of Wichita. What I saw was very nice. Everybody was lovely. The bookstore was fantastic. And everybody was happy to see me. And there are a lot of people who were like, I'm so glad you didn't come when you were supposed to, I wasn't going to be able to be in town then. You know, and I was like well, okay, great. But like I said, it was, I was happy that I was finally able to get to Wichita and it was a point of pride, right? Because it wasn't my fault. It wasn't my fault that I wasn't able to get to Wichita. And so I wanted to be absolutely sure that I got back and didn't think, didn't let the people of Wichita think that they were just being blown off. That's just not the way that I work.

SARA: I don't think that anybody felt that. I think that the bookstore did a nice job of kind of explaining that was beyond everybody's control. And so we had some staff here that were really excited to have you rescheduled. It was disappointing that you were stuck over by the Costco. Not that those hotels are bad. I had a very good meal over there once but like, you know, once. There's so much more to see downtown.

JOHN: Yeah, no, and that was the thing. The bookstore people like, "The next time you come, have them keep, you know, have you downtown and they gave me like a name of a bed and breakfast and stuff like that." I was like, I will absolutely remember that. But I think it was also partly just when we rescheduled, we just had to redo everything and it's a question of what was available and stuff like that so it may have been that the place that the bed and breakfast that they want to put me downtown may have simply not been available. And so they're like you go to a Marriott. You know the Marriotts, the Marriotts are fine.

DANIEL: I've been to the Sequoia room there a couple of times for conferences and stuff. So yeah, I know about it.

JOHN: Exactly. And like I said, you know, that is... but that's also the nature of touring anyway. I mean, it's all those rock and roll songs about how touring is hard, they're not wrong, right? It is the thing where, you know, you wake up at five o'clock in the morning, you go to the airport, you take a flight, you get to your hotel, you sort of like go ugh until it's time to go and do your event. In the event, you're on and you've signed books, and it's really cool. And you get to see people. And then as soon as it's done, if you're like me, who's like a high performing introvert, you immediately collapse because you've done all your like, "Hi, I'm social," for the day. And all you really want to do is go back to your hotel room stuff, you know, a hotel burger in your face, and then go to sleep, because you got to be up at five o'clock the next morning again. So it sounds cool. And it is cool in the sense that you get to meet people and you get to go to places and you get to have that experience. But the mechanics of touring, like I said, like every song by a rock band, they're not lying to you. It's, it's, it's a grind.

DANIEL: So you mentioned like touring, I mean, let's be real. You're like a sci-fi rock star, you have a deal of tour. Love Death + Robots is a spiritual successor to Heavy Metal Magazine. So I just have to ask you a question. How does it charge tribute to the pantheon of science fiction?

JOHN: [IN AN AFFECTED VOICE] Well, it feels great. I mean, Robert Heinlein and I were just hanging out the other day and Isaac Asimov, I gave him a wedgie. You know.

[NORMAL VOICE] So, you know, the thing about it is that it is genuinely surreal, right? You know, without saying, you know, anything else about it. I mean, it is, you know, it is a fact that, you know, my books do pretty well, people know who I am. If we go out on the road, people show up to see me. And, you know, I have the... I have a Hugo, I have a New York Times bestseller. All of that sort of stuff just feels weird, right? Because when you're growing up and you see a book that says Hugo winner, you're like, "Oh, well, this must be good because it's won a Hugo." And then to actually be in that same... you know, it's a very small room of people who have won the Best Novel Hugo. And also, the number of them who are actually still alive is even smaller still. And you get to be one of them. I was president of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America for three years. And so basically, I knew literally every science fiction author who was a member, you know, it was like, 1,800 of them. And, you know, you just think about you're in this club that when you were growing up, you had you like, oh, one day, it'd be cool if I got to do this.

Or, you know, that I met Robert Silverberg, who is a grandmaster, or Joe Haldeman who won, who wrote The Forever War. And not only do I know them, they're pals, right? Like the people I grew up reading, I get to be like, you know, hey, Joe. Hey, Bob. You know, hey, Steve's, for Steve Bruce, or, you know, who writes a fantasy series that I love. So that's just kind of weird. And to think that there is a group of people who are now -- 'cause I'm 54 and I've been writing science fiction now for about 20 years. And there are people who are adults who come up to me, and it's like, "Oh, you were an inspiration to me when I was in high school, and I'm writing... you know, now I'm writing books." And one thing you're like, one, I was an inspiration, oh, my god. Two, you're a grown adult and I was an inspiration to you, I'm going to dissolve into dust now. That sort of thing. So all of the things that encompass this, right, or even just like Love Death + Robots, right? As you said, something good came out of my brain has now been seen by literally millions of people. There are people who have tattoos, of at least one of the three robots, right?

DANIEL: It's used on TikTok, they love taking excerpts. I've been seeing the three robots show up a lot.

JOHN: Yeah, absolutely. And you just think about that, you know, that people are like walking around, you know, with, you know, something that you came out of your brain is now on their skin until they die. Right? And that's kind of, that's kind of a wild and wacky thing. So, you know, I lived with me my whole life, right? I am not impressed with me. You know, it's just, you know, I get to be, I get to be me and when I'm done, I will, you know, go get a snack which will be cereal, dry cereal that I'm going to shove in my face and stuff like that. It's not like it's like and now the romantic life of a writer, you know, where, you know, there are people like, tell me more of your genius or anything else like that. I feel like very much of a normal person.

But then every once in a while my life gets surreal. Like, one time I got a fan letter from Tom Hanks, right? He typed it up, and he actually sent it in the mail. You know, and I was on tour, my wife was like, "You got fan mail." I'm like, "Okay." And it's like, and it's from Tom Hanks. I'm like, "You send me a picture of that right now." You know, and I'm like, up doing an event when she finally sends it. And so I'm up at a podium going, "Oh, I got some fan mail from Tom Hanks. You want me to read it to you guys?" And everybody's like, yes! And we, and I read it and stuff like that. So just having those really like, sort of surreal moments. And that you're like, what even is my life? That's kind of fun. I got to be, I got to be who I wanted to be when I grew up. And that's kind of cool.

DANIEL: I gotta say, like, your, there's some wholesome moments in your book. And I gotta say knowing that Tom Hanks reads John Scalzi, that's totally odd for Tom Hanks!

JOHN: It was, it was weird for me too. I'll tell you what, this is a story that I've told before so I can tell here as well, which is that he sends me the fan mail, which has been lovely. And I'm on tour. And when I stop in LA, I get this phone call from my manager. And he's like, you gotta go to the Chateau Marmont. You know, which is that hotel. I'm like, why? He's like, "You're having lunch with Tom Hanks. He wants to meet you." And I'm like, okay, and I go to Chateau Marmont, and I go to where the, you know, the restaurant is. And I'm like, I'm here to have lunch with Tom Hanks and the hostesses are like, well, he's not here yet so have a seat. They're like, also, why are you having lunch with Tom Hanks? And I was like, I write science fiction and he likes my books. And they're like, well, we like science fiction. Tell us about your book. So I get up and I talk to them about it.

And then while I'm talking to them, Tom Hanks rolls in. And he's like, what's going on here? And he was like, they were asking about the books and stuff like that. And he goes, "You've never heard of John Scalzi?" And he reaches into his satchel and he pulls out an iPad, and he starts scrolling through literally every book that I've ever written talking about them. And like, you know, if you can ever have Tom Hanks as your hype man, 100 percent do that. It's just, it's just a thing. And I'm just sitting there going, Oh, my God. You know, because it's Tom Hanks. And so now, of course every time I see a Tom Hanks movie, I'm like, "Oh, look, it's my pal Tom." And my wife is like, "Please stop doing that."

SARA: I love that every single time that you talked about Tom Hanks, though, you said Tom Hanks like full name.

JOHN: It's not like I can say, "So anyway, I was talking to my friend Tom. And he said..."

SARA: Tom Hanks.

JOHN: Tom Hanks, yeah. And it's also... I mean, and I get that on an extremely much smaller scale. Because when people refer to me, they often just, they don't often say, John, or they or they just say Scalzi because there's like, if you're talking about Scalzi there's really only one Scalzi. So I'm like Madonna, I have one name. Scalzi.

DANIEL: Like, have you ever thought about seeing if he can make a cameo on one of your books? Because that would be funny if he was a surprise motivation or something.

JOHN: In Agent to the Stars, at the very end there's a fake Variety article that talks about the box office of the movies that came out that week. And Tom Hanks thriller Golden Master was the number one movie that week. And when he wrote the fan letter, he put at the bottom, "P.S. Gold Master is my favorite of my movies, too," which meant that he actually had read it, and that he knew what he was talking about, and that was a real geek out moment. So he has in fact made a cameo in one of my books, even before I knew Tom Hanks, because, of course he's Tom Hanks.

SARA: Well, I think that might be a really great place to like, wrap things up. But before we do, John, what's next for you? Is there anything that you're working on now if we don't have a follow up to Starter Villain?

JOHN: Well, I do have a novel that I'm writing up now that is going to be in February of 2025. I'm not putting out a novel next year because the available time slot they had for me was the first Tuesday in November of 2024, which is election day, and we decided to skip that day because there'll be other things going on. So we moved it to February 2025. So that, I'm writing that novel right now. And at the end of 2025, I will also have another novel coming out. 2025 is the 20th anniversary of my first novel, first published novel, Old Man's War, which came out in 2005. So, we are going to put the seventh Old Man's War book is going to be at the end of 2025.

SARA: Wow, that's awesome. So I suppose you can't tell us like, what pop culture references you can, we can expect in 2025?

JOHN: Oh, I wish I could, but I'm still in the process, process of writing. And so the answer is, I could tell you, but I literally don't know. I have to write them up yet.

SARA: Okay, awesome.

DANIEL: Like militarized senior citizens is probably what's gonna happen.

SARA: Where else can people find more of your work? Sorry, Daniel, to interrupt you.

JOHN: So obviously, any library just about, you will find me and bookstores. Online, my website is whatever.scalzi.com or just type in scalzi.com and it will take you directly to it. I am online on also on Facebook. I have a public page there. I'm on Threads. I'm on Bluesky and I'm on Mastodon. So all of the social media things, also an Instagram. Just look for John Scalzi. You will, you will find me I'm either under Scalzi, S-C-A-L-Z-I, or J-Scalzi, all one word. And then beyond that, if you have Netflix, watch Love Death + Robots because I'm there too.

SARA: Awesome.

DANIEL: Awesome.

SARA: That's great. Okay, I'm gonna just like call it out. I know we like prepped you before. But I feel like we should just acknowledge the fact that Daniel and I are super awkward. We tried to wrap up these interviews. I mean, listen to any one of them. And you're like, do they even like the guests? And yes, we like all of our guests.

DANIEL: We just don't know how to close it out.

SARA: We don't know how.

DANIEL: We want to try something new and we're happy to have Mr. Scalzi help us with that. So let's go ahead.

SARA: We'll try a catchphrase to end it out. John, if you could go ahead and after we say our names, you could say, "I'm John." And then after we say read and return, you say repeat.

JOHN: Got it.

SARA: Okay. Let's try this out.

JOHN: All right.

DANIEL: Well, this is the show. I'm Daniel.

SARA: I'm Sara.

JOHN: And I'm John.

DANIEL: Who's our guest today. And this has been Read.

SARA: Return.

JOHN: And Repeat.

SARA: All right, yay! Thank you so much, John. You have a great day.

JOHN: You're very welcome. Okay, take care.

VOICEOVER: Looking for an easy way to keep track of your ReadICT challenge progress? Check out the Beanstack app. With Beanstack, you can participate in library reading challenges, log reading activities, and even win prizes. You can access the app either through the the Apple or Google Play stores or on a desktop computer by visiting wichitalibrary.beanstack.org. If you are participating in the ReadICT challenge, every month you log a book, you will be entered into a challenge to win a cool book-ish themed prize. For more information on Beanstack, visit wichitalibrary.org/beanstack.

JENNY: Here are some reading recommendations for various ReadICT 2023 categories from our community of readers in the ReadICT Facebook group. If you're looking to connect with other like-minded readers online, be sure to join. In Facebook, search for the group #ReadICT challenge and click join. You can also find more reading recommendations for this and other categories by visiting wichitalibrary.org/readict.

Between Two Kingdoms: A Memoir of a Life Interrupted by Suleika Jaouad. I loved Between Two Kingdoms. There is a documentary on Netflix called American Symphony that is about the author and her husband and it was so interesting to see what has happened since the book.

Minor Detail by Adania Shibli. I read Minor Detail by Adania Shibli for a book about death or grief. I could see it being used for the villain category too, as part of the book is from the villain's perspective. It's a short book, just over 100 pages, relevant to current events, and one that I won't forget anytime soon.

And thanks for WPL for ordering this book as I requested, The Last Romantics by Tara Conklin. I read this one for a book about death or grief. I loved, loved, loved this book. And I don't say that about very many.

The Unmaking of June Farrow by Adrienne Young. If anyone is still needing a book for category six, a book about time, or if you've finished the challenge and just want a good read, I highly recommend The Unmaking of June Farrow by Adrienne Young. It starts out a little slow in the first few chapters, but then it becomes such a beautiful story filled with twists I wasn't expecting. It is truly a magical book I will always treasure.

Tom Lake by Ann Patchett. Tom Lake is Ann Patchett's latest work. Unfortunately, I was out of town when she was here. This is a wonderful book. As they're picking cherries in their family's commercial orchard, the protagonist is telling her three girls the story of her summer at Tom Lake when she was Peter Duke's girlfriend. Duke later became a famous actor. She weaves her story around the play Our Town. She played Emily in various productions until Emily became a part of her. Her oldest daughter is an Emily. After one successful Hollywood movie, she became the wife of an orchard farmer. The story of her summer is woven into conversations, questions, and memories with her three girls and her husband. I hope you get to meet Ann Patchett and her book. Lucky you.

We Are All the Same in the Dark by Julia Heaberlin. A friend recommended this book several months ago and I finally checked it out. I could hardly stop listening. It's a riveting thriller that would fit categories two, four, maybe six. And for sure nine.

IAN: Dick and Henry: The Space Saga by Kenneth Buff. Kenneth Buff is a local author that attended Local Author Day this year. He has several novels and short story collections locally published, and that can be found at the Wichita Public Library. I'm actually a little jealous of his work ethic. He makes me realize that I've been dragging my feet on my own novel that I started writing and never finished. Dick And Henry: The Space Saga is a collection of short stories, focusing on Captain Dick Shannon, a transport pilot for the mega corporation Miracle Grocers, and his harvest robot HN-R3 or Henry. While there job's ostensibly to transport produce between harvest sites and the corporate space stations, they seem to constantly get drawn into solving mysteries, as it's corporate policy that the close employees must investigate situations.

Loki: Where Mischief Lies by Mackenzi Lee. This book is about the Marvel Comics version of Loki set in the movie universe, although it never specifies, who is canonically gender fluid. While I picked the book up because I knew about the character previously, I was surprised by how much actually delves into that part of them.

A Spark of Light by Jody Picoult. I listened to A Spark of Light and I'm using it for a book told from the point of view of the villain. The story is told by 10 main people. In whichever side of the abortion debate you land on, at least two can be seen as villains, especially if you include minor characters. The story is told in a way where it's easy to empathize with all and see how they got where they are. It was a very interesting story and I enjoyed starting at the climax and moving back to the start of the day by the hour.

Maeve Fly by CJ Leede. This one is not for the faint of heart. It's so good, disturbing, raw, and rage filled. A quote: "I've never understood and still do not understand the notion that a woman must first endure a victimhood of some sort -- abandonment, abuse, oppression of the patriarchy -- to be monstrous. Men have always been permitted in fiction and in life to simply be where they are, no matter how dark or terrifying that might be. But with a woman, we expect an answer, a reason. But why should she do it? Why, why, why?"

The Ride of Her Life: The True Story of a Woman, Her Horse, and Their Last-Chance Journey Across America by Elizabeth Letts. The story was delightful. In 1954, Annie Wilkins of Maine loses her farm to back taxes. She's in poor health and has been given a year or two to live. With what little money she has left, she buys an old horse, packs her meager belongings, and along with her faithful dog begins a journey to California on horseback. Along with Annie's story, the author gives tidbits of history along the way without getting too deep and sidetracked.

Nic Blake and the Remarkables: The Manifestor Prophecy by Angie Thomas. A super fun Y.A. book that's got it all: fantasy, African American history, a real life dormant volcano under Jackson, Mississippi, and 12-year-olds battling magic. Fits categories two, three, four, and 11.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: So I think we did a great job for season three, we finished off with Mr. John Scalzi. And also we finally have an outro.

SARA, VOICEOVER: Took us three seasons to get a catchphrase.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Yeah, I'm glad that we, yeah, we probably should have done it in season one. Or episode one of this season, but we got it.

SARA, VOICEOVER: You know what, it's always a work in progress. So I'm fine. I think we had a great season. I hope everybody that listened to with us enjoyed it. If you didn't or if you did, throw us an email, let us know.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Okay, I hope, yeah, can't wait to come back for season four. And get to meet more people and also hear from our listeners about what they're reading. I read 14 books this year and I think that's like a personal like, record for me.

SARA, VOICEOVER: I'm also on a record year. I don't know how many yet but it's definitely like a lot more than normal.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: So just yeah, I'm glad to like, you know, read because I'm a librarian. And --

SARA, VOICEOVER: Heck yeah. And then do you repeat, and do you return?

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: I do return. I don't necessarily repeat. I'm kind of a one and done.

SARA, VOICEOVER: It's just it's Read. Return. Repeat. Oh, well, whatever. Let's read the credits.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: A list of the books discussed in today's episode can be found in the accompanying show notes. To request any of the books heard about in today's episode, visit wichitalibrary.org or call us at (316) 261-8500.

SARA, VOICEOVER: We want to send a special thank you to John Scalzi for joining us for today's episode. But we also want to thank those of you who are sharing your reading recommendations with us and listening along with us all season long.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: This has been a production of the Wichita Public Library and a big face goes out to our production crew and podcast team. We couldn't do the show without you. So shout out to Jenny, Ian, Kyle --

SARA, VOICEOVER: Kyle, Greg, Sean.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Everybody over that helps make this show possible. Thank you so much.

SARA, VOICEOVER: We got a super great team. But to participate in the ReadICT reading challenge -- if you have not already, you should have by now -- but please visit wichitalibrary.org/readict. Stay connected with other ReadICT participants on the ReadICT challenge Facebook page, find out what's trending near, you post book reviews, look for local and virtual events -- we'll have a lot more in 2024 -- and share book humor with like-minded folks. To join the group, click -- search for ReadICT challenge on Facebook and click join.

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: And don't forget to log your books in the reading tracker app, Beanstack. Each month you log a book in the challenge, you're eligible to win prizes. If you need any assistance signing up or logging books, give us a call, reach us on chat, or stop by your nearest branch.

SARA, VOICEOVER: And as always, you can follow this podcast through the Spotify app or stream episodes on whatever platform you use to listen to podcasts. If you like what you heard today, be sure to subscribe and share with all your friends. Bye!

DANIEL, VOICEOVER: Bye.